On buying an R set up in 2021.

[Winedemonium]

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I've been extravagant with lens buying lately. Having delved into 'R', I ended up with something of a set, and in short time - 

- 2.8/19R v2, 2.8/28R v2, 1.4/50SX-R vE60, 1.4/80R v1, 2/90APO-R, 2.8/180APO-R. All I need really*. Compared to the lenses, the film bodies are given away. I bought an R8, an R6.2, and a Leicaflex SL2. I shot the first roll of film on the LF-SL2 this week and enjoyed the experience. For that camera body I also bought the 2/50R v1 - so, 7 lenses.

*I'm not being flippant. I realise this is quite an expense, and that I've paid essentially over the odds for the very late release versions that might ultimately offer arguably only marginally 'more' than their much cheaper but equally well made and enjoyable earlier Leica R lens counterparts. But my rationale is that, despite the R system being long dead, and there being some risk over servicing these lenses cf M glass, I feel calm. Much calmer than if I'd just spent this on a set of high end glass with electronic mount/system-dependant autofocus and aperture selection. The quality of these R lenses is very high, all are in fine condition today, the focus is smooth, and manual, the apertures are adjusted manually, and this lens set is highly adaptable. Obsolete, yet also future-proof. Quality enough for high resolution digital sensors, optically corrected as well as possible in their day, and made in era of film, so a foot in each camp.

The Leicaflex gave such pleasure this week. I can see how it might be true that they lost money on every one, despite them costing twice that of a Nikon F/2 (or so the story goes). It's every bit as quality as the old Ms. Coming 'over' from the M side, I found the innovation 😁 of seeing the aperture and shutter speed setting in the viewfinder a real marvel! Another week or two and I'll be quick with it.

Are there 'better' manual focus lenses out there today? Yes. I get that there is a counter-argument. I'm happy to concede that optical technology moved on from the last of these R designs, even if performance often requires splitting hairs. I have the 85mm Zeiss Otus. It's performance is incredible. But its rendering agenda (high colour, contrast, microcontrast, and the super clear layers) is so strong it's almost signature. To a lesser extent we see it too with Leica's own 50APO-M. (Has it gone further still with Leica's APO 35,50,75,90-SL series? I didn't stay with the SL system, but I imagine these are all blisteringly sharp and well-corrected - paid for by volume and weight). My hope though is that the design and quality of this R set I've just collected will straddle the line between what I (and many of us here) love about the Mandler aesthetic - especially on film - and the Karbe era push for more detail and exacting performance for digital. A sort of Goldilocks set then, well-corrected, but somehow a little gentler than what we see at the bleeding edge today.

An unmitigated GAS-attacked this has been for sure. And, as this is a part time hobby for me (and I have also re-kitted in the M system after quitting that 2 years ago), it will take me some months to get to know these lenses. I look forward to it. I'll post a few pics to the R lens thread once that gets underway. 

 

 

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[OR120]

12 minutes ago, Winedemonium said:

I've been extravagant with lens buying lately. Having delved into 'R', I ended up with something of a set, and in short time - 

- 2.8/19R v2, 2.8/28R v2, 1.4/50SX-R vE60, 1.4/80R v1, 2/90APO-R, 2.8/180APO-R. All I need really*. Compared to the lenses, the film bodies are given away. I bought an R8, an R6.2, and a Leicaflex SL2. I shot the first roll of film on the LF-SL2 this week and enjoyed the experience. For that camera body I also bought the 2/50R v1 - so, 7 lenses.

*I'm not being flippant. I realise this is quite an expense, and that I've paid essentially over the odds for the very late release versions that might ultimately offer arguably only marginally 'more' than their much cheaper but equally well made and enjoyable earlier Leica R lens counterparts. But my rationale is that, despite the R system being long dead, and there being some risk over servicing these lenses cf M glass, I feel calm. Much calmer than if I'd just spent this on a set of high end glass with electronic mount/system-dependant autofocus and aperture selection. The quality of these R lenses is very high, all are in fine condition today, the focus is smooth, and manual, the apertures are adjusted manually, and this lens set is highly adaptable. Obsolete, yet also future-proof. Quality enough for high resolution digital sensors, optically corrected as well as possible in their day, and made in era of film, so a foot in each camp.

The Leicaflex gave such pleasure this week. I can see how it might be true that they lost money on every one, despite them costing twice that of a Nikon F/2 (or so the story goes). It's every bit as quality as the old Ms. Coming 'over' from the M side, I found the innovation 😁 of seeing the aperture and shutter speed setting in the viewfinder a real marvel! Another week or two and I'll be quick with it.

Are there 'better' manual focus lenses out there today? Yes. I get that there is a counter-argument. I'm happy to concede that optical technology moved on from the last of these R designs, even if performance often requires splitting hairs. I have the 85mm Zeiss Otus. It's performance is incredible. But its rendering agenda (high colour, contrast, microcontrast, and the super clear layers) is so strong it's almost signature. To a lesser extent we see it too with Leica's own 50APO-M. (Has it gone further still with Leica's APO 35,50,75,90-SL series? I didn't stay with the SL system, but I imagine these are all blisteringly sharp and well-corrected - paid for by volume and weight). My hope though is that the design and quality of this R set I've just collected will straddle the line between what I (and many of us here) love about the Mandler aesthetic - especially on film - and the Karbe era push for more detail and exacting performance for digital. A sort of Goldilocks set then, well-corrected, but somehow a little gentler than what we see at the bleeding edge today.

An unmitigated GAS-attacked this has been for sure. And, as this is a part time hobby for me (and I have also re-kitted in the M system after quitting that 2 years ago), it will take me some months to get to know these lenses. I look forward to it. I'll post a few pics to the R lens thread once that gets underway. 

 

 

Someone is having a good time! What a great collection you've got. That SL2 (I had the MOT w/motor - loud and heavy) was fantastic. I had to move on to other gear due to my photo work at the time but I have very, very fond memories of that SL2 (w/o the motor). Enjoy your quest/journey.

[wizard]

You have certainly aquired a great set of lenses. That said, you should treat yourself with a Macro-Elmarit-R 2.8/60mm lens. It pairs exceptionally well with the Leicaflex SL2 (and your other film bodies as well) and is such a joy to use. 

Enjoy your "new" lenses and cameras!

Cheers,

Andy

[sandro]

I agree with Andy. The Macro-Elmarit-R 2.8/60mm was the only reason I bought an R4, I am mostly working with Leica M camera's. But this lens is a marvel, and with the adapter I can do the macro pictures I like.

Lex

[earleygallery]

Wot, no Summicron 35R ?!

[ocean2059]

Very nice collection of R lenses indeed!  I would also recommend the Summilux-R 35/1.4, which pairs very well with Summilux-R 80/1.4.

[Winedemonium]

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7 hours ago, sandro said:

The Macro-Elmarit-R 2.8/60mm

 

7 hours ago, earleygallery said:

Summicron 35R

 

3 hours ago, ocean2059 said:

Summilux-R 35/1.

All 3 lenses appeal. At some point they may be added. For now I have enough to get on with happily. Thank you for the suggestions.

[pgk]

I've had a couple and the 60mm Macro-Elmarit is an excellent lens. It is a 'standard' macro design which elongates as it focusses, and it delivers great performance. That said, so do other, similar macro lenses, but the Leica is beautifully built too. I have a friend who is an optical designer who looked very closely at the 35mm Summilux and concluded that it too was a fabulous lens, but with complex mechanics and too high a cost. If you find one which you can afford it is well worth buying, unlike the 35mm Summicron which, from much of what I have read, would probably benefit from a modern redesign, as have the M lenses - not going to happen unless you count the current SL version. 

[AZN]

Good choices - hope you got them all in their ROM versions 😃

Some more to think of:

• 35mm Elmarit-R (fantastically sharp from f/4 onwards and unlike the 35-lux, great for landscapes)
• 100mm APO-Macro-Elmarit-R (famous for good reasons)
• 35-70mm Vario-Elmar-R (the last f/4 version – limited range, but an amazing little performer)
• 50mm Summicron-R (a good "basher" lens, when the 50-lux is too heavy/ precious)
• Film camera → get the R9 with the winder.  A delight to use and much lighter than the SL TYP601 (it's almost as if Leica have forgotten how to make cameras 😡)

BTW you aren't alone.  I went through the same lens-thing back in 2017.  Had some money so bought all the R lenses I kept telling myself "maybe one day…" Ended up with getting what you have, and then some 😃

Make sure you thoroughly test the lenses on a digital body.  A relatively common scam by some "dealers" in "certain parts of the world" is to disasemble expensive lenses to clean the glass and then put them back together again, without an optical bench, meaning you end up with something that looks "like new", but the images are out of whack.  Happened to the 35-lux-R I bought, and had to send it off to DAG in the USA to be recalibrated.

Another thing, make sure you write down how much you paid for your gear and store the list with the lenses. If something bad happens and someone else has to sell the lenses, they won't end up getting 5c in the dollar, or less (having just been executor of my mother's will, you won't believe the low-balling vultures I've had to deal with regarding her jewellery and antique furniture).

Sad fact, but few people have any idea how expensive this stuff is… "You paid how much for that 20-year old lens?!!!!"

Edited February 1, 2021 by AZN

[Musotographer]

Very nice too! Though I don't have an R camera I seem to have accumulated no less than seven of the lenses and I really enjoy them, mainly on the SL601, but sometimes too on my M. The 80 is my standard portrait lens - I find it produces even more beautiful results than the fabled 75 M version.

In the 80 you already have the jewel in the R crown, but like the others, I would strongly recommend the 60 macro - two marvellous lenses in one; and the 35/2 II - its very short minimum focus distance and f2 can give you some extraordinary possibilities and it's a lot cheaper than the 1.4.

[GregNski]

On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2021 at 3:00 PM, AZN said:

Some more to think of:

• 100mm APO-Macro-Elmarit-R (famous for good reasons)
• 35-70mm Vario-Elmar-R (the last f/4 version – limited range, but an amazing little performer)

I second both of these, particularly the 100mm f/2.8 APO-Macro-Elmarit-R. There's just nothing like it. The 35-70 f/4 is also a fantastic lens, one which you will end up using 90% of the time.

[Musotographer]

7 hours ago, GregNski said:

I second both of these, particularly the 100mm f/2.8 APO-Macro-Elmarit-R. There's just nothing like it. The 35-70 f/4 is also a fantastic lens, one which you will end up using 90% of the time.

The 35-70 is a splendid lens - but certainly not one I used even 50% of the time; I got rid of it after a few months. After several years of Leica primes only, my mindset just did not like a zoom any more - too many possibilities and the brain all over the place. And I could never remember which was the focussing ring and which the zooming one.... 😁

[TheBestSLIsALeicaflex]

Long as you're using the equipment it's always worth it.  Once you stop using it ....

Although I don't shoot SLR's much anymore, I really learned photography on several Leicaflex SL and R optics.  Just fabulous camera and glass.  The braking system and relative lack of vibration on the Leicaflex series is just phenomenal.  Usable pics hand held wide open even at 1/15.  Not to mention the glorious viewfinder.  Ha, ha, and still repairable!

 

 

[Winedemonium]

On 2/2/2021 at 4:00 AM, AZN said:

hope you got them all in their ROM versions 😃

The 28mm Elmarit vII, 50mm Summilux 'E60', 90mm APO-Summicron and 180mm APO-Elmarit are indeed ROM, while the 19mm Elmarit vII, and 80mm Summilux are 3-CAM. I believe the vI 50mm Summicron is 2-CAM. That one is from 1968 and sits on the Leicaflex SL, and was pristine, in its Leitz bubble case, complete with hood, serie VI filter and filter adaptor. I'm happy with the results so far.

I've yet to process a roll from the R6.2

On 2/2/2021 at 4:00 AM, AZN said:

Film camera → get the R9 with the winder.

I'm sure it is great. Given that when these die, they die, I have instead bought an R8 (not in my hands yet), from a very late serial number run (2002) in good user condition. I'll see first if I bond with that body. Relative to the lens outlay these bodies are fairly inexpensive, though the R9 is the priciest of the lot it seems.

On 2/2/2021 at 4:00 AM, AZN said:

35mm Elmarit-R (fantastically sharp from f/4 onwards and unlike the 35-lux, great for landscapes)

At some point, when I see one, yes. I like the 35mm FOV and shoot it and its equivalent in other formats. 

On 2/6/2021 at 7:39 PM, Musotographer said:

and the 35/2 II - its very short minimum focus distance and f2 can give you some extraordinary possibilities and it's a lot cheaper than the 1.4.

It will be this or the 35mm Elmarit. (I have two versions of the 35mm Summilux M - pre-ASPH, and FLE, so I don't think I need another! 🙂 )

On 2/6/2021 at 7:39 PM, Musotographer said:

The 80 is my standard portrait lens - I find it produces even more beautiful results than the fabled 75 M version.

Yes, and I have read Thorsten Overgaard's ode to this lens. I have owned and used two copies of the 75mm M version over the years, one of them great. Phillip Reeve conducted a very interesting comparison between the 80 and the 75 (external link here). For large lenses - like this one - I prefer the ergonomics of the R type lenses. 

On 2/2/2021 at 4:00 AM, AZN said:

100mm APO-Macro-Elmarit-R (famous for good reasons)

 

On 2/6/2021 at 7:39 PM, Musotographer said:

I would strongly recommend the 60 macro - two marvellous lenses in one

 

On 2/11/2021 at 9:40 PM, GregNski said:

particularly the 100mm f/2.8 APO-Macro-Elmarit-R

One of these two at some point, and with the Elpro, or whatever to get to 1:1. 

 

Nice to see there is still some R system love out there! 

 

AZN - my wife knows the people to call in such an event. But good advice, thank you.

[andybarton]

When you get your R8, check the meter thoroughly in all modes. When it's gone, it's gone, and they are known to go wrong. Mine did. The R9s are better in that regard.

Also, be very careful if putting the R8 on a tripod - the socket is only just within tolerance for the depth of the screw and the shutter release mechanism is only just above the base plate. I put mine on my Manfrotto once, and the whole thing seized up. It turned out that the Manfrotto screw was also only just within tolerance, but at the long end. Screwing it in screwed up the shuter - Manfrotto did pay, but I expect that Leica can no longer repair such things.

[solareslarrave]

On 2/16/2021 at 10:52 AM, andybarton said:

Also, be very careful if putting the R8 on a tripod - the socket is only just within tolerance for the depth of the screw and the shutter release mechanism is only just above the base plate. I put mine on my Manfrotto once, and the whole thing seized up. It turned out that the Manfrotto screw was also only just within tolerance, but at the long end. Screwing it in screwed up the shuter - Manfrotto did pay, but I expect that Leica can no longer repair such things.

Thanks for the warning!! I didn't see anything like this anywhere!

Like the OP, I just went through a major GAS seizure and not only did I get myself a Nikon S rangefinder system (35, 50 and 105mm lenses) but also a camera that I had dreamed about for a long time: the Leica R8. Now, since I shoot primes with my rangefinders and zooms with my dSLRs, I found a 3-cam Vario Elmar 28-70 that I find suits my shooting style. Yes, I read it's not as glorious as others, but I just want to experience the R8 right now.

Who knows? I think there's a 'cron 50 in my future...

[M9reno]

Windemonium, as an addition to your stable you might eventually consider the APO-Telyt 280 f/4.  Legend.

And if you want to play a fun game of Russian roulette, look for a DMR.  These have been coming up at exorbitant prices, but every once in a while there is something more reasonable.  The experience of swapping between film and digital on the same body is not to be missed, and the digital quality is breathtaking for a digital relic.  Even if and when the DMR kicks it, there will be collector buyers happy to buy for their vitrine.

[Flashgo]

I have the 19 & 100 macro, both converted to Nikon coded mounts.  They both draw you in and make you want to explore their possibilities, especially in how they balance foreground and background.  Resolution is beyond even modern sensors.

The main limitation of these lenses is that they don't have modern coatings and don't do well in sunshine.  As long as you acknowledge that, you can get some unique and satisfying images.  Enjoy!

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[solareslarrave]

I'm curious about something (not that I intend to do this but...): I have a Leica SF20 flash. Can I eventually use it with my Leica R8?

Just wondering... Thanks!

[masjah]

6 hours ago, solareslarrave said:

I'm curious about something (not that I intend to do this but...): I have a Leica SF20 flash. Can I eventually use it with my Leica R8?

Just wondering... Thanks!

Yes, they are fine together.