Voigtlander Nokton 35mm f1.4ii or Ultron 35mm f2

[Guest JMF]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

5 minutes ago, lct said:

I suspect one of the "untrue" is too untrue to be true at least . Any steel rim's pic with flare for instance? 

No, check the forum , Steven has shared some and using a lens hood does help.

I'm off this topic now.

Edited April 7, 2021 by JMF

[Product Details]

Overview all Voigtlander Leica M-Mount lenses

Voigtlander Leica M-Mount lenses available at Amazon and B&H Photo Video

[lct]

1 minute ago, JMF said:

No, check the forum , Steven has shared some.

Where?

[Guest JMF]

2 minutes ago, lct said:

Where?

Welcome to my ignore list 🙂

[lct]

2 minutes ago, JMF said:

Welcome to my ignore list 🙂

Curious reaction.

[Lee S]

48 minutes ago, JMF said:

Untrue and untrue. With a light source near the  edge of frame for example, both v1 and v2 pre asph summilux will flare :

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Summilux v2 on M8.

The purpose of hand grounded aspherical lenses is to avoid CA. You may refer to other lenses such as the Nocti Nikkor 58 1.2.

Best, JM.

That’s some beautiful flare and photo. Bravo. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Lee S
More praise

[Lee S]

Attached a photo of the flare and busy Bokeh wide open on the 35mm F1.4 Nokton Classic ii. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Guest Nowhereman]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

12 minutes ago, Steven said:

...This is why I bought the Nokton 35 1.4 Silver limited edition. In looks, its a perfect knockoff of the "Steel Rim". Optically, I actually like the way it flares at night. Much more manageable, and can be use to one's advantage...

Interesting. And is the Summilux 35 AA, the ideal lens with regard to this type of flare, in that it "flares beautifully"? How does it compare to the Nokton 34/1.4 — and is the latter v1 or v2, or doesn't it matter (and does it have to be the silver limited edition, because I would prefer black)?

I don't think I could deal with he flare of the Steel Rim, as I also like to shoot at night.
_______________________________________
Frog Leaping photobook and Instagram

Edited April 7, 2021 by Nowhereman

[lct]

8 minutes ago, Steven said:

And here is a video I made panning slowly the camera to show you how the flare behaves. This too was with no hood, but it was actually very small light sources. Nothing crazy. 

@JMF then suggested me to close down a bit the lens and use the hood, and indeed, it improves the flare situation dramatically. Still not the ideal lens for walking around Paris at night. This is why I bought the Nokton 35 1.4 Silver limited edition. In looks, its a perfect knockoff of the "Steel Rim". Optically, I actually like the way it flares at night. Much more manageable, and can be use to one's advantage. 

https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1Ep3qa2S5B26B-0p6W7XkWC7tIIBYVD24

Thanks for sharing. We've been discussing about this here if i remember well. I have a 35/1.4 v2 that i know well so my question was not about it. I just wondered if the steel rim flares more than v2 because i've heard rumors about that for many years but aside from "true/untrue" statements i can't seem to find convincing evidences about that. According to your pics above i begin to believe that the rumor was true. 

[Dennis]

1 hour ago, Lee S said:

I have both lenses and will try and do a comparison this weekend. The C Biogon will be sharper across the frame I know that for sure.

Do you have a particular distance in mind for the test? 

 

 

Yes, that would be awesome. Thank you in advance for do that. FWIS, the Nokton classic II MC it's like having two lens in one: regular/modern lens from f/2.8 (maybe f/4) on, and so unique wide open or so.. it could be a killer combination for a daily 35mm, that's why it interests me. My choice its between 35/2 Ultron II and the Nokton. I know the Ultron has a similar rendering of 35 Cron Asph, and it could have a "similar" rendering of my Biogon C from 2.8... Which is great. I know the Zeiss is a stellar lens.

But what about the Nokton II at f/2, f/2.8 and f/4? That's is what I would like to know, if it's not asking so much. If I buy the Nokton, I would use my preferred f-stops of f/2, f/4 and f/8... With a wildcard f/1.4 ... Non interested in the rest. It's my modus operandi of all lenses.

Outdoor samples please (from a window is fine if lockdown). Not interest in MFD... About 1mt, 3-5mt range, and infinity would be appreciated. Do whatever you want, it's your time and your rules.

Anyway, again, thank you 🙏

 

P.s. sent by a phone. May be rife with typos or poor judgement 🙂

[Guest Nowhereman]

7 hours ago, TheBestSLIsALeicaflex said:

...So to suggest you dropped 10-20K on a Leica lens because it is the "best" or what you "needed" or satisfied a current "want" makes no sense to some, and for others an outrageous first world statement.  Maybe this is why there's some push back.  

I would normally react more strongly to this explanation of "push back", but let's call it "inelegant".  So, you say that some would call it "an outrageous first world statement". This really is too cute for my taste, considering that given how skewed income distribution is in the third world there are a good many people who can, and do, buy expensive Leica lenses in the third world. So, let's be clear: what is being said is that Steven is being criticized for buying some expensive lenses: jealously — or what else would this be? In any case, it's not that Steven has said, "you must try the this (very expensive lens)." The statement I referred to reflects on its writer, not on Steven.
_______________________________________
Frog Leaping photobook and Instagram

[Guest]

I read somewhere that the nokton 35mm f1.4 was based on the 1960's summilux but with different assembly of the glass elements which slightly improves the design in operation.

Which i assume applies to the 40mm f1.4 nokton classic that i own?

Must admit i would like to own an early 35mm summilux but its too expensive.

[Cobram]

14 minutes ago, Steven said:

If I had to find a 35 Leica lens to compare it to, I would say it is closed to the Summilux Pre Asph, indeed. This is mainly because wide open on a bright day, it starts losing a little sharpness and gets that little glow that, once used to it, becomes a little addictive. It's also very similar in design. Slightly bigger, but very compact lens. The most compact of the 1.4s... 

In my opinion, though, the Nokton sits somewhere between the pre fle and the the pre asph. While it has that "Leica Glow" to some extent, it is also much sharper than a Pre Asph. More modern, shall I say? But not too clinical: therefore, not an FLE, but rather a pre FLE. A little more cinematic, a little transparent. 

Also, don't forget that at F2, you have yourself something similar as the a Cron Asph. 

I have two Noktons, and they are my only two non Leica M lenses, but I treat them as such. They perform as well as Leica lenses to me, and therefore are the best value lens, IMO, that one can get for an M body. 

Note also that I love using the nokton on my SL2-S. I'll tell you why another day. Someone told me my posts are too long. 

Not me. I like many of your posts, of course not all of them😅

I'm interested in Nokton + SL combination. 

For example my Color Skopar 21/4 is a very very sharp and nice lens on M-E220 but attached on SL 601 it produces magenta corners. Sharpness is diminished.

[flf]

SO, I've bought the new Voigtlander Ultron 35mm F2 Type II, and after a bit of time using it on film, I've decided to do a small comparison against my other two 35mm lenses: The Summicron 35 APSH V1 and the Summaron 35mm 2.8.
I only have a Fuji Xpro2 as a digital camera, so for now, I will just talk about the results on it and on film, all without hoods.

The build quality of all 3 is seriously amazing! The f-stop ring is perfect on the Voigtlander, similar to my Summicron 28mm. The other 2 Leicas are a bit too clicky, (they got CLA and checked by Leica 1.5 years ago...).

The only thing I don't like the "idea" that the ULTRON F2 is "painted". I wish they had an anodized version or whatever.

The focus ring on my Leicas is PERFECT; on the ULTRON, is almost perfect, for now. When you want to do a small focus adjustment there is too much friction. I hope in the future, using it more, will be softer, like happened to my Summicron 35.

FLARE AND GHOST: Ken Rockwell is a liar. My Summaron, Summicron 35 ASPH, and Summicron 28 ASPH, ALL of them have Flare and Ghost issue when a light source is just outside the frame or in the frame.
I like the Summaron a bit more compared to the others because is more " dreamy". In the Summicron, even the ghost and flair are sharp :).

I don't like my Summicron 35 ASPH regarding the flair: it creates a sort of veil on the frame, and it is disturbing IMO. I like/accept instead the Summaron one and the Summicron 28 ASPH one, with nice old flair circles (you can have a nice and interesting effect with it).
On my simple test, the Voigtlander has NO FLAIR.
I am not saying it doesn't flair, but it is way more difficult to let it do it. I had it flair a bit, for now, only shooting directly at the sun without a hood. This lens is a very nice surprise!

BOKEH: at F2, the Summicron 35 has a smoother bokeh than the Ultron. Period. Just a bit more creamy, not more than this.
At F2.8, the lenses started to be virtually, THE SAME.
A F2, the ULTRON has serious vignetting issues. Not so important on Digital, BUT, on film sometimes is disturbing! At F2.8 is acceptable!
The Summaron at F2.8 has a bokeh NOT creamy like the other 2 lenses at F2.8 As well.
From F4, all the 3 Lenses are almost identical, with the Summaron a bit more soft on the edges.

BUT, the Summicron between F2 and F4 has the infamous Focus Shift! And is annoying a LOT.

The other 2 have no issue in this regard.

The distortion of ALL THREE is ZERO on the Fuji Xpro, of course. On film, the Summaron and the Ultron are basically perfectly straight, the Summicron has a tiny tiny distortion, but you can't really notice it on print!

CONCLUSION: I love my Ultron, it's so small and the performance so great!! Could not believe that was basically the SAME lens as the Summicron ASPH. But being smaller, bring that vignetting issue at a larger aperture, though.
BUT still don't know if I want to sell my Summicron.
The Summaron is just LOVE: a lens from 1960 that performs almost the same as a modern 35 lens.

I think I would like to buy also the Nokton 35mm F1.4 II MC. I always wanted a Summilux, the last two 35 lux are so big, and I don't like to have my Viewfinder blocked.
Do you have any experience with it?

[okiman]

On 3/13/2021 at 7:01 PM, giannis said:

For photography I'd say it goes like: subject matter>light>composition>everything else.

Well, it's (almost) completely opposite for me. Composition, composition, composition ... then long long silence, then light quality, then everything else.

Subject matter is only important in some cases, but mostly not for accessing the quality of the photo. That would be like saying that an oil painting is better if it's of one person rather then the other. To me, subject matter is only really important in documentary photography and even then we don't say that it is a good photo because of subject matter, but an important one. Composition makes a good photo. light quality can help.

Just my 2 art-critic-like cents.

[pippy]

20 minutes ago, okiman said:

...Subject matter is only important in some cases...

Eh?............

So usually you consider the subject matter of a photograph to be unimortant?

Philip.

Edited June 7, 2021 by pippy

[okiman]

3 minutes ago, pippy said:

Eh?............

So usually you consider the subject matter to be unimortant?

Philip.

... for the quality of the photo. So, when you say some photo is good or bad, subject matter does not come to consideration.

 

[pippy]

1 hour ago, okiman said:

...when you say some photo is good or bad, subject matter does not come to consideration.

Unusual approach but, hey, if it works for you then that's what counts.

Philip.

[IamTheDistance]

On 4/12/2021 at 1:02 AM, flf said:

SO, I've bought the new Voigtlander Ultron 35mm F2 Type II, and after a bit of time using it on film, I've decided to do a small comparison against my other two 35mm lenses: The Summicron 35 APSH V1 and the Summaron 35mm 2.8.
I only have a Fuji Xpro2 as a digital camera, so for now, I will just talk about the results on it and on film, all without hoods.

The build quality of all 3 is seriously amazing! The f-stop ring is perfect on the Voigtlander, similar to my Summicron 28mm. The other 2 Leicas are a bit too clicky, (they got CLA and checked by Leica 1.5 years ago...).

The only thing I don't like the "idea" that the ULTRON F2 is "painted". I wish they had an anodized version or whatever.

The focus ring on my Leicas is PERFECT; on the ULTRON, is almost perfect, for now. When you want to do a small focus adjustment there is too much friction. I hope in the future, using it more, will be softer, like happened to my Summicron 35.

FLARE AND GHOST: Ken Rockwell is a liar. My Summaron, Summicron 35 ASPH, and Summicron 28 ASPH, ALL of them have Flare and Ghost issue when a light source is just outside the frame or in the frame.
I like the Summaron a bit more compared to the others because is more " dreamy". In the Summicron, even the ghost and flair are sharp :).

I don't like my Summicron 35 ASPH regarding the flair: it creates a sort of veil on the frame, and it is disturbing IMO. I like/accept instead the Summaron one and the Summicron 28 ASPH one, with nice old flair circles (you can have a nice and interesting effect with it).
On my simple test, the Voigtlander has NO FLAIR.
I am not saying it doesn't flair, but it is way more difficult to let it do it. I had it flair a bit, for now, only shooting directly at the sun without a hood. This lens is a very nice surprise!

BOKEH: at F2, the Summicron 35 has a smoother bokeh than the Ultron. Period. Just a bit more creamy, not more than this.
At F2.8, the lenses started to be virtually, THE SAME.
A F2, the ULTRON has serious vignetting issues. Not so important on Digital, BUT, on film sometimes is disturbing! At F2.8 is acceptable!
The Summaron at F2.8 has a bokeh NOT creamy like the other 2 lenses at F2.8 As well.
From F4, all the 3 Lenses are almost identical, with the Summaron a bit more soft on the edges.

BUT, the Summicron between F2 and F4 has the infamous Focus Shift! And is annoying a LOT.

The other 2 have no issue in this regard.

The distortion of ALL THREE is ZERO on the Fuji Xpro, of course. On film, the Summaron and the Ultron are basically perfectly straight, the Summicron has a tiny tiny distortion, but you can't really notice it on print!

CONCLUSION: I love my Ultron, it's so small and the performance so great!! Could not believe that was basically the SAME lens as the Summicron ASPH. But being smaller, bring that vignetting issue at a larger aperture, though.
BUT still don't know if I want to sell my Summicron.
The Summaron is just LOVE: a lens from 1960 that performs almost the same as a modern 35 lens.

I think I would like to buy also the Nokton 35mm F1.4 II MC. I always wanted a Summilux, the last two 35 lux are so big, and I don't like to have my Viewfinder blocked.
Do you have any experience with it?

Thanks for this!! I can't find reviews about the Ultron Type II but yours was really useful. In addiction, I have the 35mm Summicron ASPH too and feel the same about the flares and focus shift. I really want the new Ultron for shooting film, but having the vignetting issue at f/2 makes me think about purchasing it or not. Could you post some pictures, please?

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Marckyokay]

On 6/23/2021 at 4:04 PM, IamTheDistance said:

Thanks for this!! I can't find reviews about the Ultron Type II but yours was really useful. In addiction, I have the 35mm Summicron ASPH too and feel the same about the flares and focus shift. I really want the new Ultron for shooting film, but having the vignetting issue at f/2 makes me think about purchasing it or not. Could you post some pictures, please?

Also interested in the Ultron Type II for the same reason... Regarding the vignetting, I think one can look at the type I pictures and judge. It should be the same. But I'm not sure... 
I held the Type II silver version in a store once, and while heavy (it should be brass I read somewhere), the silver chrome is not as beautiful as the older LTM brass chrome Voigtlander that I remember... 

And then... the focus turn was surprisingly stiff... I was quite shocked... Now contemplating if I should order one and try it that sample out...

P.S. I would also gladly take Steven's silver Nokton 😉 

[Dennis]

This thread, among others, made me made a decision. Recently I bought the 35/1.4 II MC and like it very much. I'm sure this lens will never leave. But I am also interested in trying the Ultron II. My ideal 35 modern lens is f/2; I don't need a faster lens. I have 1.4 on the Nokton, and I use it when I want, but it's not essential for me. The 35/2 Summicron Asph would be an great fit for me, I guess, but unfortunately it's out of the budget. If I spend so much for a new Leica lens, I get the 21 SEM.

The long lenses like CV 35/2 APO are optically (IQ) my ideal lenses, but I can't. I would buy it, but the long lens size doesn't work for me at all. I could arrive to accept up to a 35/1.2 III size, larger but shorter. But not that long like a Distagon, for a few reasons. 

When I see options for a brand new modern 35mm f/2, the Ultron II, I think, could be the one. I have the Nokton Classic and the 2.8/35 ZM; I'm fine. But the 35mm is my most used FL, and I would love to have a few glasses to choose from, according to the mood, purpose, and skills 🙂