Voigtlander Nokton 35mm f1.4ii or Ultron 35mm f2

[Cobram]

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10 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

Skimming through their recent posts, it seems they skipped the igloo.  I sometimes wonder what is happening to photography.

I think I can answer your question "what is happening to photography?" : NEW REALITY. 🤣

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[Harpomatic]

I would like to say something about the discussion that was completely off topic but I see to have started on this thread:

1 hour ago, Steven said:

I am happy that someone is finally starting to understand my point. There's nothing wrong with someone wanting the best lens that is made, even if his skills aren't there to take the most advantage of it.

No objections there. If you can afford it, you should do that and enjoy it.

I have looked at your Instagram feed and let me tell you, I really enjoyed it. I like your images, I really do and I wouldn’t say that if I didn’t truly believe it. I like your videos even more, I think you must have had proper training for how you tell the story there: effective and engaging montage, framing, focus changes, I really like them. I need to learn from what I have seen.

BUT:

1 hour ago, Steven said:

the only lens in my knowledge that can import the Q2 look to an M camera.

Of all your Instagram posts I can’t see how which equipment you are using makes any difference to the final image other than you enjoying the use of it: all images, including the desert boys shot in what, 2008? have exactly the same post processing that lowers the contrast, almost giving a haze look. I can’t tell if you shot those images on an iPhone or a Hasselblad medium format camera. They all look the same. Which is a strength, you have a visual identity, and can pull it off across equipment. But not once, on your feed, I wondered what it was shot on. Not once. The images stand by themselves, as well as the videos, and I enjoyed the content. Also, no difference between the drone footage and the handheld video footage in image rendering. The drone has no Leica camera or lens on it I assume?

 

1 hour ago, Steven said:

Well, I just bought myself a new 35. One I have been dreaming of. Unfortunately, I paid 19K for it. I was exited to share my experience with it, but now I might just keep it for myself by fear of upsetting people for buying stuff that in theoretically don't need to take a photo. Because of course, I don't need my new 19k lens to take photos. Actually, I took over 600k photos already without it. But it doesnt mean that it's not nice to get it if I can and if I want at the same time. 

Now, this is just flaunting your affluence. People use these figures as house deposits. Was there a need to tell us that? The price of it? You could have made your point just saying that you bought a very expensive one. But no, you just spent $7.5k on the APO and now $19k on another 35, and you say that in the same post. Why? What does that demonstrate? 

Am I envious? No, I admire people like you that have success in life and can get to the point of spending without worry. Well done, again I should learn from you and make a success of myself. If I’m not there is my fault, envy does not get into the equation. But: flaunting your money is plainly a “look at me” attitude. Please respect those people that have different means and still inhabit these forums.

We all love gear, otherwise we wouldn’t be here discussing it. I’m here for the gear but in my quest to find the only lens I need in each specific focal length. Not the collection. We look for different things.

And please don’t get offended by the “look at me” comment: you are here and on Instagram for that reason in part: why would you have 415k followers (wow, well done!) and only follow 547? You don’t really know who your audience is. But you have a really large one.

All these remarks are written with respect and please don’t get riled up again. It is food for thought.

The whole point of this post is: let’s respect each other and have consideration. Each person has an opinion and they need to be respected for that. If some of os roll their eyes when someone says the new lens is just what they needed and the look they needed etc. It’s because we have different opinions. Respect that and get on with life. 

I will retire from this discussion and go to work now.

I’m out.

[anickpick]

It should come as no surprise that in a forum where everything revolves around a luxury good, envy and resentment, condemnation, psychological discharge and narcissistic outgrowths can occur. 

But it does not seem to me to be without irony that all this crap is discharged in a contribution about relatively cheap Voigtländer lenses.

[lct]

Not a death or life issue folks. How many of us are making a living with photography? Let's enjoy the brilliant or modest gear we have and let's others enjoy theirs with respect .

[giannis]

1 hour ago, Steven said:

I was going to start an image thread about it, but I know I hesitate

Never hesitate to start an image thread. Any image thread, of any type of content, using any gear, is always welcome. We like looking at images and images is what is - proportionately - missing in this forum. You're making it a better place by posting images, under any excuse you can find  

So yeah, don't ever double-think before posting an image.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Steven said:

I am happy that someone is finally starting to understand my point. There's nothing wrong with someone wanting the best lens that is made, even if his skills aren't there to take the most advantage of it. Someone who hasn't tried that lens should not give an opinion on what that lens is worth, IMO. Saying a double AA is ridiculously priced compared to a pre FLE without trying it, that's understandable, fine. But saying the APO is overhyped by people praising without having tried it, that does not make sense to me. But what makes even lens sense to me is to be reduced to a "gear head" or a even worst a "show off" by someone who believes that others don't need anything more than what he uses. Especially if that person was not even born when the one who purchased the APO already had a camera in his hands. What works for some does not work for others and vice versa. There is no need to stereotype people by the stuff they buy. Everyone buys what makes them happy. In my case, what attracts me with the APO is not the corner sharpness or the lack of CA, but the fact that it is, after trying it, the only lens in my knowledge that can import the Q2 look to an M camera. If ones likes that look and can spare 7,5K, why not ? 

I really didn't expect to be told not talk about my gear acquisition.... on a gear forum! I can afford to be impulsive and buy nice stuff. No need for people to become jealous. On the contrary, I thought it could be useful to the people who need to think a little more than me before purchasing to hear my first impressions and my feedback on the gear I buy ! 

Well, I just bought myself a new 35. One I have been dreaming of. Unfortunately, I paid 19K for it. I was exited to share my experience with it, but now I might just keep it for myself by fear of upsetting people for buying stuff that in theoretically don't need to take a photo. Because of course, I don't need my new 19k lens to take photos. Actually, I took over 600k photos already without it. But it doesnt mean that it's not nice to get it if I can and if I want at the same time. 

The APO summicrom is an easy target for critical comment because most people cannot afford it or at least justify the expense.

In many ways a poster like yourself is also an easy target because of your significant spending on expensive gear and strong opinions.

Human nature and all that comes into effect.

For me its fine to disagree with someone but not to dismiss or belittle their point of view.

[rramesh]

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From 'Voigtlander Nokton 35mm f1.4ii or Ultron 35mm f2' to a discussion on cars, houses, social media and things APO. Must be March!

By the way, love the new look to this site.

Edited March 17, 2021 by rramesh

[Dennis]

I just read the review of the CV Ultron by Sean Reid; he just published it today. I can't share the info here for obvious reasons, but it looks like Ultron outperformed the Cron Asph. The comparison is between Ultron, Cron Asph, and the new Cron APO. Well, the APO is impressive. And the Ultron, my respects.
I arrived at one important conclusion: both lenses Nokton and Ultron, considering the price, IQ, and unique rendering, are worth buying: especially for an M shooter (like me) who intensely loves 35mm FL. I believe purchasing both lenses makes total sense to me. 

[lct]

45 minutes ago, Dennis said:

I just read the review of the CV Ultron by Sean Reid; he just published it today. I can't share the info here for obvious reasons, but it looks like Ultron outperformed the Cron Asph. The comparison is between Ultron, Cron Asph, and the new Cron APO. Well, the APO is impressive. And the Ultron, my respects.
I arrived at one important conclusion: both lenses Nokton and Ultron, considering the price, IQ, and unique rendering, are worth buying: especially for an M shooter (like me) who intensely loves 35mm FL. I believe purchasing both lenses makes total sense to me. 

Not sure about the Ultron 35/2 given that you have a Biogon 35/2.8 already. I like much the Ultron which is my favorite 35/2 together with the 'Cron 35/2 v4 on digital CL but i would not say that it outperforms the 'Cron 35/2 asph personally. Both lenses have a similar rendering, the Ultron having a bit less CA but also a bit more vignetting but i'm no reviewer . Both great lenses anyway and the Ultron is hard to beat for the price. Now the cheap 7art 35/2 is not far.

[Dennis]

10 minutes ago, lct said:

Both great lenses anyway and the Ultron is hard to beat for the price.

That's precisely my point.
Ultron outperforming the Cron Asph, maybe not the right words, but if you read the review and see the photos (if subscribed), you will understand it better than my English. 🤦‍♂️
Yes, I already have the Biogon 35/2.8, but one extra stop and a shallower DoF when needed; it's beneficial. I like f/2 lenses. To find my perfect 35mm fit for me, it's essential. I'm a Pro, and I'm always using more and more my M10; I would love a few 35mm for different purposes.

New 35mm Leica lenses are out of the budget. All my options available for a brand new No-Leica 35mm lens are not so many. The Ultron could become by daily workhorse. We'll see. Anyway, I'm waiting for the v2 w/ focus tab.  

 

[lct]

I thought you wanted both Nokton and Ultron. Between Nokton and Biogon i did not see any significant room for the Ultron but i may be wrong. 

[Dennis]

5 hours ago, lct said:

I thought you wanted both Nokton and Ultron. Between Nokton and Biogon i did not see any significant room for the Ultron but i may be wrong. 

Yes, I want both. I don't mind if the Biogon is stellar. If Ultron is wow but f/2, I stay with Ultron. But as I said, I would probably end trying several 35's and keep the three or the four. To have many 35mm, the investment is fine, but the possibilities are ... 
I understand people having more than a couple lenses of the same FL. As long as they use them, it's great. 🙂

 

[shirubadanieru]

7 hours ago, Steven said:

I have a dozen 35s right now. I'm figuring out which ones to keep and sell. I used to think I would be able to keep only one and make it my holy grail. But at this point I've realised that the 35 holygrail is not One lens, but a combination of lenses, for me. 

I think I'm close to selecting my 3 (or max4) lenses that I will keep and make my lifetime 35 kit. Several factors comes into consideration such as IQ, overall rending, size and weight, ergo, colours and build quality, as well as future proofing investment. 

Little teaser: at this point, I dont think the APO will make it in the final team. 

looking forward! Which are the remaining?contenders? lol By the way I was able to pick only one, at least for now & if I were to get a second one maybe it'd be the UC Hexanon which was my fav non leica lens alongside the rollei 40mm. 

[shirubadanieru]

7 hours ago, Steven said:

Well, I suppose you will not be surprised to find out that in my potential "Final 3", there will be a guaranteed spot for: 

- The Summilux Pre Asph v1, aka Steel Rim. It earned a spot for its beautiful design and look, its classic Leica glow, its value as investment, as it has now entered the collectible category, and of course, it's the most compact lens I own. I cannot imagine ever parting with this lens. I'd be happy to be buried with it. 

- To complement the little Mandler gem mentioned just above, I am about to receive my latest acquisition, the Summilux Aspherical, aka, the 35AA. I haven't tried yet, but if the rumours are true, it will be a perfect "modern alternative" with IQ reaching the level of cine lenses, fine colour transitions, sharp in the center with a touch of Mandler around the frame, and of course, a low light beast. It is also know to have the most magic 3D pop effect we all love. As far as the investment value, no need to say that it's one of the most sought after lens for collectioners, and it's value has not stopped going up and should continue to reach astronomical prices. 

- The third and last lens, is almost the one in the title of this thread. The Nokton 35mm 1.4 MC 1, Silver limited edition. Only 250 copies around the world, it has already doubled in value since it came out. Design wise, it is an exact knockoff of the Steel Rim. In the way it renders, I place it somewhere between the FLE and the Pre Asph, but a little closer to the modern lens. As you might have understood, this will be my beat around lens. The one that is ok to lose if I really need to lose one, or the one that I take out when it's raining, or the one that I can be a little more careless with. It also has a second advantage for me: it is as compact as the steel rim, but much more usable at night if I find myself in a city environment. Love this little gem. 

What I like about this setup is that although three lenses of the same focal length can seem like a lot to some, it's not to me, and with these three lens, I know exactly when I need to take each one, and it saves me time choosing (and regretting) the lens I pick up in the morning. 

I'm getting closer to my Nirvana. 

Nice to see the steel rim there : ) I was a bit torn between the Steel Rim and 8e for a while but I think the Steel Rim does everything the 8e does, while being slightly smaller (I think but might be wrong) and also looking better (external design wise), and it provides a unique rendering at f1.4 beyond the 8e capabilities. That being said, the 8e is great and right there behind it (and its value is also increasing tremendously).

Interesting to see the Norton f1.4 silver limited edition, those are made by mapcamera here in Japan and do indeed look much better than the regular version. I just never get excited to shoot voigtlander lens that’s why I didn’t get it; I know they are great but if I have a Leica lens and a voigtlander lens I will always end up picking the Leica lens. But for the purposes you mentioned that makes sense to keep it for rougher situations. 

Also interesting to see that the APO Cron is not there, to be honest I don’t like any modern 35 from leica so I wouldn’t pick it but given that it’s the hot new item I thought you might still be in the honeymoon phase lol 

 

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, shirubadanieru said:

Nice to see the steel rim there : ) I was a bit torn between the Steel Rim and 8e for a while but I think the Steel Rim does everything the 8e does, while being slightly smaller (I think but might be wrong) and also looking better (external design wise), and it provides a unique rendering at f1.4 beyond the 8e capabilities. That being said, the 8e is great and right there behind it (and its value is also increasing tremendously).

Interesting to see the Norton f1.4 silver limited edition, those are made by mapcamera here in Japan and do indeed look much better than the regular version. I just never get excited to shoot voigtlander lens that’s why I didn’t get it; I know they are great but if I have a Leica lens and a voigtlander lens I will always end up picking the Leica lens. But for the purposes you mentioned that makes sense to keep it for rougher situations. 

Also interesting to see that the APO Cron is not there, to be honest I don’t like any modern 35 from leica so I wouldn’t pick it but given that it’s the hot new item I thought you might still be in the honeymoon phase lol 

 

Amazing you can judge a lens so easily without using it ,a rare talent .

All leica lenses were modern when they were first introduced.

[shirubadanieru]

1 hour ago, steve 1959 said:

Amazing you can judge a lens so easily without using it ,a rare talent .

All leica lenses were modern when they were first introduced.

Right but I wasn’t born then was I so from where I’m standing (or all of us for that matter) they are not modern anymore since they’re 50y or older vintage lens today. so in regards to your statement I am not sure I understand where you’re trying to get to?

 

 And I don’t need to necessarily use a lens to know that the rendering is not my taste; that’s why I use this forum and Flickr to refer to pictures of specific lens, and to me Asph / Apo modern/sharp/clinical rendering don’t attract me.

Edited March 19, 2021 by shirubadanieru

[lct]

Some of you folks seem to have some love/hate relationship with dog poo

[Dennis]

29 minutes ago, lct said:

Some of you folks seem to have some love/hate relationship with dog poo

 😆 

Let's do one MFD 💩 challenge.. Just kidding!

Back on topic: For the CV Nokton II MC owners, I would like to know more about the lens behavior in the 1.4-2.8 range.
At f/2, is considerably less glow and sharper than f/1.4? 
Can you compare the IQ @ f/2.8 with the 35/2.8 Biogon? Or it's asking so much? Maybe f/4-5.6 🤷‍♂️
My point is: If the lens is "modern" and sharp since f/4, and with a unique character wide open or so, I think it could be an exciting combination. Maybe this is one of the things many people like about this lens.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Shu]

59 minutes ago, Dennis said:

 😆 

Let's do one MFD 💩 challenge.. Just kidding!

Back on topic: For the CV Nokton II MC owners, I would like to know more about the lens behavior in the 1.4-2.8 range.
At f/2, is considerably less glow and sharper than f/1.4? 
Can you compare the IQ @ f/2.8 with the 35/2.8 Biogon? Or it's asking so much? Maybe f/4-5.6 🤷‍♂️
My point is: If the lens is "modern" and sharp since f/4, and with a unique character wide open or so, I think it could be an exciting combination. Maybe this is one of the things many people like about this lens.

I have the v2 of the single-coated lens, and can definitely confirm it looks like a different lens at f2 and up. It's glowy with high vignetting at f/1.4, but really sharpens up and loses most of the glow at f2. It's like having 2 lenses in one.

[Guest]

18 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

Right but I wasn’t born then was I so from where I’m standing (or all of us for that matter) they are not modern anymore since they’re 50y or older vintage lens today. so in regards to your statement I am not sure I understand where you’re trying to get to?

 

 And I don’t need to necessarily use a lens to know that the rendering is not my taste; that’s why I use this forum and Flickr to refer to pictures of specific lens, and to me Asph / Apo modern/sharp/clinical rendering don’t attract me.

In his review of the APO "jomo slack" insists that the lens is not clinical.

Now that may or may not be pro leica hype but its also possible that lens designers have worked on the "clinical reproduction" issue aimed at some modern lenses.