M10-R Dust Detection feature working?

[Hey You]

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Thanks.  Makes sense.  However, I tried walls many times before trying a computer screen, and my Prima Donna didn't like them either.

BTW, I'm the owner of the only "Prima Donna" Leica M10-R ever made.  Collectors may contact me.

 

[pedaes]

17 hours ago, Hey You said:

too wide a field of view for the size of my computer screen.

The idea is the image is 'de-focused', so you can hold camera an inch (25mm) from screen or wall. If using a wall, lighting on wall needs to be very even over picture area..

Edited June 1, 2021 by pedaes

[Oswalt]

The feature isn’t very effective in my opinion. My sensor collects more dust and is often dirtier than the results I see on the back of the camera. 
 

I stop down to f16, defocus, and shoot a blank pages or word document. I then import into Lightroom and use the highlight spots tool, upon seeing the results, I promptly suffer a coronary, keel over and die. 
 

 

[Stef63]

2 hours ago, Oswalt said:

The feature isn’t very effective in my opinion. My sensor collects more dust and is often dirtier than the results I see on the back of the camera. 

The fact that with a 180 mm it shows dozen of spots and with a 75 mm only one makes it indeed rather ineffective.

[roverover]

16 hours ago, Stef63 said:

I have a M10 and M10M.  I did some extensive testing with all my lenses on the 2 cameras and came to this :

1. The M10 never gave me a "Picture not homogeneous" message, the M10M did quite often.  So it is sensor related.  The M10M has basically the same sensor as the M10R without the bayer filter
2. On all my wide lenses a was never able to get past the error message
3. 50 mm seem to be lens dependent.  Noctilux produced ALWAYS good results.  Summicron ALWAYS the error message.
4. longer than 50 mm consistently did not trigger the error message.
5. the longer you go the more dust particles are detected.  A 180 mm R lens shows much more dust than a 90 mm.  And a 75 showed me the least dust.

Conclusion : do the dust test with the longest lens you have on an M10R or M10M.  

Based on your findings, it seems like you are discovering that the varying degree of Dust specs you are viewing are most likely on your Lenses.
When the Dust Detection feature is working, as we now know it's hit or miss on the M10R, it's important to differentiate between Lens Dust and Sensor Dust.

When i encountered dust on my earlier M10 and M240 models using the Dust Detection feature, it was always a process to inspect both the Lens and Sensor
and to systematically inspect and clean them, starting with the front and rear lens elements. It was my experience that MOST of the dust i was seeing was on the lenses,
however, i also did find some pesky spots on my sensors too.

So based on your reports, i suspect you are seeing LENS DUST and some sensor dust too perhaps, but you first need to whittle it down by cleaning the lens you
are testing with and re-checking as you go, once you are certain the lens is clean on the front and rear elements, then the remaining dust is likely on the sensor,
at least this has been My experiences.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by roverover

[david strachan]

IMO best to take out of focus, smallest aperture of even blue sky, opposite to sun,  then use spot detection in LR.  Or better use 3x enlargement and just carefully scan picture looking for any marks on the sensor. 

I routinely take an image or two every few photo sessions to check the sensor. It very rarely needs cleaning...about every 12 months or so.

The  M-P240 in-camera dust detection is misleading.

...

[Stef63]

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On 6/2/2021 at 4:09 AM, roverover said:

Based on your findings, it seems like you are discovering that the varying degree of Dust specs you are viewing are most likely on your Lenses.
When the Dust Detection feature is working, as we now know it's hit or miss on the M10R, it's important to differentiate between Lens Dust and Sensor Dust.

Very good suggestion and I must admit I did not take lens dust into account.  Back to the test bench…

1. I see indeed differences between long lenses especially when I cleaned the 180 Telyt R I saw less dust.  Yes this must be lens dust.
2. I did not stop here, mostly because I still wanted to prove my point that focal length does affect the amount of dust detected by the M10 dust detection algorithm.  Your explanation seemed logic but my mind was not ready to accept  it yet 😀 
3. A clean 90 mm Summicron and a clean 90 mm Thambar showed me exactly the same 3 dust spots.  Must all be sensor dust, and no lens dust involved in this test. 
4. I then mounted a 75 mm Summilux and it showed only one dust particle.

Voilà. Point proven. I’m right .. 

But what about a zoom lens on an M10M ? Same lens. Different focal length.

1. I did a test with the Vario 28-90 R lens.
2. 28 mm and yes the error message “Picture not homogeneous“.  Luck is on my side and it proves again that wide lenses are not appropriate for dust detection on high res Leica  sensors
3. 35 mm and 50 mm same error !!! Confidence grows on me.
4. 70 mm not the 1 sensor dust particle I saw on the 75 lux but lots more.  Damn, you were right about sensor dust.
5. 90 mm same number of dust particles as when zoomed to 70 mm except 2 extra’s I was also seeing on the 90 cron and thambar.

Ok, you where right that I did not take lens dust into account.  It seems to me that the lens dust detected is not dependable of focal length as proves my test with a zoom lens.  But sensor dust shown in the dust detection is dependent of focal length, as demonstrates my testing with the 75 vs 90 fixed and 70 and 90 on a zoom lens.

.. the good thing… it can be fixed in software.  Probably?  Hopefully?  In a future firmware upgrade?  Or maybe never on the M10R or M10M but on the M11 we all will discover it’s fixed.  

 

[blaze]

Me too :-) Dust detection not working I also get the " In Homogenious " message " What does that mean ?? 

 

[pop]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb blaze:

Me too 🙂 Dust detection not working I also get the " In Homogenious " message " What does that mean ?? 

 

It only works when you shoot a featureless blank area. Either focus your camera to the closest distance it will go and take a shot of a completely overcast sky, or set the distance to infinity and point it at an evenly lit white wall or large cupboard. In either case, stop the lens down as much as it can and this is one of the few occasions where moving the camera a bit during the exposure actually might help.

Inhomogenous means the whole of the image area is not featureless.

[Woden]

Regarding M10-R dust detection, try updating your firmware and be sure your ISO compensation is set to zero and follow camera instructions. This worked for me on my M10-P after experiencing the same problem.

[eawriter]

I also couldn't get the Dust Detection feature to work on my M10-R. I tried lots of different subjects and always got the inhomogeneous message. Then I read the replies in this forum and tried shooting a blank Word document on my computer, with the brightness turned up, from a few inches away, at f/16, with a 75mm Summicron, focused at infinity. And it worked the very first time. Thank you to the posters who suggested that solution. 

[Hey You]

Thanks for the suggestion.  I'll give it a try.  Previously I had set my focus at minimum distance rather than infinity, and that may be the problem.

 

[roverover]

On 1/4/2022 at 5:30 PM, eawriter said:

I also couldn't get the Dust Detection feature to work on my M10-R. I tried lots of different subjects and always got the inhomogeneous message. Then I read the replies in this forum and tried shooting a blank Word document on my computer, with the brightness turned up, from a few inches away, at f/16, with a 75mm Summicron, focused at infinity. And it worked the very first time. Thank you to the posters who suggested that solution. 

Hello. Thanks for posting. I am curious if you might have been able to recreate the Dust detection at will?
I too can "occasionally" get it to work and feel lucky when I do, but it's not with any consistency no mater what techniques or lenses I employ,
so I am curious about your repeated attempts.

[eawriter]

18 hours ago, roverover said:

Hello. Thanks for posting. I am curious if you might have been able to recreate the Dust detection at will?
I too can "occasionally" get it to work and feel lucky when I do, but it's not with any consistency no mater what techniques or lenses I employ,
so I am curious about your repeated attempts.

That was the first time I'd tried that approach. In order to answer your question, I just tried it again. Worked perfectly, first time. 

[roverover]

10 hours ago, eawriter said:

That was the first time I'd tried that approach. In order to answer your question, I just tried it again. Worked perfectly, first time. 

Thanks for posting again. Your camera seems to perform this function better than mine. I have tried 6 or so different lenses and technique's
and I can't get repeatable results. Many users seem to experience this too, so some M10-R cameras just seem to do this better than others. 

[Hey You]

I tried the blank Word document approach.  Still no luck, still "Image inhomogeneous."  My lens was a 50mm.

 

[Olivier76]

Hello, I was looking for this topic because I just received a Second Hand M10R and wanted to check if they were any dust on the sensor. And I got that error message you were talking about « image inhomogeneous ». I started on a wall, then on a door, computer screen, IPad Screen, blue sky, ceiling, furnitures and always the same message « image inhomogeneous »….

Finally I had the idea on trying on a white reflector and it finally worked.

I remember that with the  Typ 262 I use to own, a simple white door was enough. So indeed the M10R really need a specific white/surface for that dust detection to work.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Olivier76

[roverover]

39 minutes ago, Olivier76 said:

Hello, I was looking for this topic because I just received a Second Hand M10R and wanted to check if they were any dust on the sensor. And I got that error message you were talking about « image inhomogeneous ». I started on a wall, then on a door, computer screen, IPad Screen, blue sky, ceiling, furnitures and always the same message « image inhomogeneous »….

Finally I had the idea on trying on a white reflector and it finally worked.

I remember that with the  Typ 262 I use to own, a simple white door was enough. So indeed the M10R really need a specific white/surface for that dust detection to work.

That was a good idea and glad you got it to work, however, it may not be as repeatable or reliable as desired. I hope your technique is more reliable.
Based on research, Leica has done away with this feature which the M-11, I assume they now feel it is unnecessary. There are other ways to perform
dust detection on the sensor and lenses, so for me, it seems prudent to learn about those too.

[charlesphoto99]

You need to use a lens over 50mm. Piece of white foam core or paper or board is best. Perhaps Leica did away with it on the 11 as fewer people are owning long M lenses these days? 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[overexposed]

the M10-R has a dust detection feature? 😏