M10-R Dust Detection feature working?

[jdlaing]

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2 minutes ago, roverover said:

As stated in some of the previous posts, I too have been experimenting with Bright Computer screens, Bright skies, Bright White walls both lit and unlit, TV screen images and Black backgrounds were tested too. I have also used a moving screensaver background on my computer.
So, once I discovered it wasn't functioning as my previous M camera's did, I have  been experimenting with different lenses too. So far, and based on several posts, my M10-R is not
the only on where this function isn't working as expected. Hearing about more use experiences might be helpful.

Is YOURS working?

 

I don’t have an M10R but I discovered that if the surface is not dead flat or even color it will report non homogeneous. I use a clear blue sky or a piece of white paper like parchment paper I gleaned from the wife’s baking supplies shelf. At first I surmised the wall had a enough texture and the computer screen has the pixels, even tho you don’t see them unless straining your eye,  that could fool a higher res camera into thinking it was non homogeneous.

I have an M-240P.

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[roverover]

43 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

I don’t have an M10R but I discovered that if the surface is not dead flat or even color it will report non homogeneous. I use a clear blue sky or a piece of white paper like parchment paper I gleaned from the wife’s baking supplies shelf. At first I surmised the wall had a enough texture and the computer screen has the pixels, even tho you don’t see them unless straining your eye,  that could fool a higher res camera into thinking it was non homogeneous.

I have an M-240P.

OK, Thank You - my M240 worked perfectly. It's worth exploring any and all ideas, but seems a few other M10-R users are having the same experience as i am.
Hoping more "M10-R" users might chime in.

 

[Hey You]

Given my lack of success with Dust Detection mode on the M10-R, I followed earlier advice here, and took an image of a blank white computer screen. 

I then bumped up the exposure and magnification of this image.

To my disappointment, I found specks of dust everywhere.

However, this raises a different problem - how can I determine whether these are specks of dust on the sensor, or specks of dust on the computer screen?

Before taking the image, I cleaned the computer screen thoroughly, but these specks are minute, and the screen attracts dust.

There is no way of telling where the dust specks are, so it seems to me that this approach creates its own problems.

I'll wait until specks appear on  my images - or until Leica fixes this issue.

 

 

 

 

[FDS]

Just to be fully clear, I was using the 'dust detection' function when photographing the sky as in my post no. 9.   The bright blue sky using 135mm focused at 1.5m (at f22) worked the first time using the dust detection mode.  I've had the problem indoors and then the successful result outdoors with both of my M10Rs.  I can live with it.  No big whoop.   

[roverover]

I have spent a little more time today experimenting using my 50mm 1.4.  With the lens WIDE open, which is "OPPOSITE" of what the Leica instructions say, and under a bright sky,
i started getting more repeatable results. I don't understand what is taking place when using the Dust Detection feature or how the camera achieves these test results.
Perhaps someone here knows more about how this feature works inside the camera, but even though this workaround had a higher, about 50% hit rate, the feature seems buggy to me based on my experiences with my previous camera bodies, and different users are finding work arounds but so far, seems only 1 user is getting results using Leica's instruction and not having any issues with it.
Eventually, more data and user experiences may help us understand it a bit better. 

[roverover]

5 hours ago, Hey You said:

Given my lack of success with Dust Detection mode on the M10-R, I followed earlier advice here, and took an image of a blank white computer screen. 

I then bumped up the exposure and magnification of this image.

To my disappointment, I found specks of dust everywhere.

However, this raises a different problem - how can I determine whether these are specks of dust on the sensor, or specks of dust on the computer screen?

Before taking the image, I cleaned the computer screen thoroughly, but these specks are minute, and the screen attracts dust.

There is no way of telling where the dust specks are, so it seems to me that this approach creates its own problems.

I'll wait until specks appear on  my images - or until Leica fixes this issue.

 

 

 

 

I don't know how the feature works inside the camera, but my feeling is the dust you are seeing is either on your Sensor or the Lens (not the Computer screen).
For starters, try a Different LENS and compare the results using the same screen testing method. If the Dust particles look to be the same,
then it seems to me they are ON your sensor, if they change, some or all of them, then the Dust is likely on the Front or Rear element of the Lens.
Please report back.

 

[Kwesi]

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I guess the real question here for me is why a feature that worked reliably with the 24mp sensor on the M240 and Maestro I  processor and also on the 24 mp M10 using the Maestro II processor is now very buggy on the 40mp M10R using the same Maestro II processor as the M10. Maybe the Maestro II processor is simply not up to the task.

Hopefully a 40mp M11 running a Maestro III processor will have no issues with the current dust detection feature. I find it very useful on my M10-P and would hate to lose it on the M11. 

[dkmoore]

On 1/2/2021 at 3:30 PM, Kwesi said:

I guess the real question here for me is why a feature that worked reliably with the 24mp sensor on the M240 and Maestro I  processor and also on the 24 mp M10 using the Maestro II processor is now very buggy on the 40mp M10R using the same Maestro II processor as the M10. Maybe the Maestro II processor is simply not up to the task.

Hopefully a 40mp M11 running a Maestro III processor will have no issues with the current dust detection feature. I find it very useful on my M10-P and would hate to lose it on the M11. 

I have had my M10R since launch day and it hasn’t been buggy at all. The dust detection works perfectly. My response is not meant to be argumentative but rather to say that I personally have had no issues with either M10R or M10M with the processor. 
 

The OP likely received a faulty unit and should contact Leica customer care because they may be able to fix the issue remotely. 

[Kwesi]

Thanks very much for responding. This post had me worried about upgrading.

[AandW]

I recently purchased a M10-R and I have the same problem of dust detection not working.   Loaded the latest firmware and tried many ways as suggested here.

[roverover]

17 hours ago, AandW said:

I recently purchased a M10-R and I have the same problem of dust detection not working.   Loaded the latest firmware and tried many ways as suggested here.

I don't perform Dust checks too often, but there seems to be more than a few M10-R users with this issue and a few who don't seem to have it.
My previous M-10 model was a bit challenging too, it didn't work "on-demand" very well either, but I could usually get it to work after many attempts,
but I will say, it wasn't very reliable either.
My M10-R has been FAR more difficult to get it working and I have tried it using various lenses and various techniques, it seems to work "randomly."
I haven't had any conversation with anyone at Leica about it, but it might be worth one of us checking into as time permits as it's not an isolated issue.

[jecusial]

On 1/1/2021 at 3:57 PM, FDS said:

Just to be fully clear, I was using the 'dust detection' function when photographing the sky as in my post no. 9.   The bright blue sky using 135mm focused at 1.5m (at f22) worked the first time using the dust detection mode.  I've had the problem indoors and then the successful result outdoors with both of my M10Rs.  I can live with it.  No big whoop.   

Same with my M10-R: very hard to get the Dust Detection function working indoors but much easier against a bright blue sky. I used a 50mm Lux at f16 and near 0.7m focusing. 

[roverover]

5 minutes ago, jecusial said:

Same with my M10-R: very hard to get the Dust Detection function working indoors but much easier against a bright blue sky. I used a 50mm Lux at f16 and near 0.7m focusing. 

I still occasionally check the "dust detection" feature on my M10-R, sometimes as a curiosity to see if it might work, but I can Not get repeatable results.
About 85% - 90% of the attempts give me the "Image Inhomogeneous" message. A couple of users here have stated theirs works every time without issue,
but it seems now that many more users are Not having that experience. I have experimented with 4 different lenses and many different settings, but none
give me repeatable results.

Also curious, I wonder if the camera's ISO and shutter speed settings affect the Dust Detection mode?  It's been my feeling that they don't and choosing Dust Detection
sets the camera up in a specific, pre-determined fashion. Seems to me that the "threshold" for what is considered Inhomogeneous might need to be reviewed.
I know the image settings I am trying can NOT create a focused image, but this is just a guess as I have no technical electronic experience.

Perhaps Leica will see this thread and investigate / address it, it might be a simple adjustment fixable via Firmware.

 

 

[hbgdiver]

I recently purchased an M10-R. As in my past M Cameras, the Dust Detection works just fine. I've attached a picture of what is generated. Nice big piece of dust as is visible on the screen. I then take a picture with my iPhone to be able to use in remembering where the flecks show up. I also use an open blank Word doc on my screen, sit to 100 ISO and shoot from about a foot away. 

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[Hey You]

@ hbgdiver.  Tried it.  "Image inhomogeneous."

[PCPix]

Could the ‘inhomogeneous’ result have anything to do with a high ISO and noise? 

[Hey You]

That's a possibility.  The camera was set to Auto ISO, so I'll try again with ISO set to 100.  I followed hbgdiver's example, and used a blank word document.  

I used a 90mm F4 macro lens, as all other lenses had too wide a field of view for the size of my computer screen.  Set it at F22, and at a distance of about 9 inches.   

I'll try again, and I welcome any suggestions.

[Stef63]

I have a M10 and M10M.  I did some extensive testing with all my lenses on the 2 cameras and came to this :

1. The M10 never gave me a "Picture not homogeneous" message, the M10M did quite often.  So it is sensor related.  The M10M has basically the same sensor as the M10R without the bayer filter
2. On all my wide lenses a was never able to get past the error message
3. 50 mm seem to be lens dependent.  Noctilux produced ALWAYS good results.  Summicron ALWAYS the error message.
4. longer than 50 mm consistently did not trigger the error message.
5. the longer you go the more dust particles are detected.  A 180 mm R lens shows much more dust than a 90 mm.  And a 75 showed me the least dust.

Conclusion : do the dust test with the longest lens you have on an M10R or M10M.  

Edited June 1, 2021 by Stef63

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[Hey You]

I tried again, setting ISO to 100, cleaning the screen of my Mac, opening a blank Word document, and using a 90 mm F4 Macro lens.

I took repeated shots, setting the computer screen at different levels of brightness (to see if that made a difference).

I also took shots with the lens focussed at infinity and at the closest focussing distance, with the lens extended, and collapsed.

No luck.  Every shot was "image inhomogeneous."

Conclusion : my particular M10-R is a Prima Donna.

 

 

 

[jdlaing]

1 minute ago, Hey You said:

I tried again, setting ISO to 100, cleaning the screen of my Mac, opening a blank Word document, and using a 90 mm F4 Macro lens.

I took repeated shots, setting the computer screen at different levels of brightness (to see if that made a difference).

I also took shots with the lens focussed at infinity and at the closest focussing distance, with the lens extended, and collapsed.

No luck.  Every shot was "image inhomogeneous."

Conclusion : my particular M10-R is a Prima Donna.

 

 

 

No. It’s not a prima Donna. You’re using the wrong surface to photograph. The camera is picking up the pixels on the screen. Use a flat wall.