jdlaing Posted December 29, 2020 Share #21 Posted December 29, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 45 minutes ago, astrostl said: Right now, everything is like right now. So maybe be happy that you apparently already have your perfect camera, and let others have theirs too? My primary interest in IBIS isn't actually for IBIS (although I like having the option) - it's high-speed sensor vibration on startup/shutdown to automatically dislodge sensor dust. Trust me. You don’t want that on an M body. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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jplomley Posted December 29, 2020 Share #22 Posted December 29, 2020 Regardless of any electronic or sensor changes, please do not modify the M10 form. It is perfect in every sense. Placement of controls, thickness of body, even the matte black finish. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted December 29, 2020 Share #23 Posted December 29, 2020 14 minutes ago, jplomley said: Regardless of any electronic or sensor changes, please do not modify the M10 form. It is perfect in every sense. Placement of controls, thickness of body, even the matte black finish. Could not agree more. Leica tried this with the M240 platform and the results were less than well received. I hope Leica will stick with the three button layout on the back panel and especially with the ISO dial on the left corner of the top plate. As regards the rangefinder mechanism, please do not meddle with it. Making it into a hybrid or changing it to an EVF would be a disaster for the M camera line. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwesi Posted December 29, 2020 Share #24 Posted December 29, 2020 1 hour ago, mmradman said: All major cameras use IBIS today, going forward for any top model aspiring to appeal to wider user base IBIS will be must have item Leica is not trying to appeal to a wider user base with the M. They have other lines for that. One doesn't enter the megapixel race with 40MP. The Leica M is for the traditionalist willing to pay for the privilege of using a digital camera that functions much like a film camera. Thats the whole point of the M. The M is a major camera that has the good sense to chart its own course rather than play the "me too" technology game geared towards those who believe in the marketing hype that the camera should always give them fool proof results regardless of their own abilities. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erniethemilk Posted December 29, 2020 Share #25 Posted December 29, 2020 Couldn’t agree more. I shoot my M10-P alongside more modern tech but it’s the Leica that has my attention 99.9% of any given day. Sure, it’s not perfect but I’m not sure I’d want it any other way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrostl Posted December 29, 2020 Share #26 Posted December 29, 2020 48 minutes ago, jdlaing said: Trust me. You don’t want that on an M body. Trust me, I do. My Micro Four Thirds systems never had/have issues with sensor dust, and it's a regular battle on Leica M and Hasselblad V. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrostl Posted December 30, 2020 Share #27 Posted December 30, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 18 minutes ago, Kwesi said: Leica is not trying to appeal to a wider user base with the M. They have other lines for that. One doesn't enter the megapixel race with 40MP. It is meanwhile a popular take that Leica capitulated to megapixel-demanding masses to the extent of having to walk back on prior "24MP should be enough for anybody"-style comments while keeping both 24MP and 40MP+ lines simultaneously active. I disagree that they are not trying to appeal to a wider base, and think they would be foolish not to (within "reason"). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted December 30, 2020 Share #28 Posted December 30, 2020 A new film Leica at a lower price point? William 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrostl Posted December 30, 2020 Share #29 Posted December 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, willeica said: A new film Leica at a lower price point? William Not sure if this is a timely joke, but https://leicarumors.com/2020/12/28/a-new-cheap-leica-m-film-camera-is-rumored-for-2021.aspx/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwesi Posted December 30, 2020 Share #30 Posted December 30, 2020 Just saw that also. Curious what features are left out to achieve a lower price point vis-a-vis the MA.😀 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 30, 2020 Share #31 Posted December 30, 2020 Well, the obvious thing would be to drop the rangefinder and make it an M-1 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwesi Posted December 30, 2020 Share #32 Posted December 30, 2020 25 minutes ago, astrostl said: It is meanwhile a popular take that Leica capitulated to megapixel-demanding masses to the extent of having to walk back on prior "24MP should be enough for anybody"-style comments while keeping both 24MP and 40MP+ lines simultaneously active. I disagree that they are not trying to appeal to a wider base, and think they would be foolish not to (within "reason"). It may or may not be a popular take but that does not make it true. The move towards a higher MP sensor was on the horizon even before the 50/2 APO was introduced. The M10R is a stop gap measure while Leica figures out how to get the Maestro 3 processor into the M11 without sacrificing battery life and also successfully dealing with heat dissipation issues arising from the faster and more capable processor needed for dealing with bigger file sizes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted December 30, 2020 Share #33 Posted December 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, astrostl said: Not sure if this is a timely joke, but https://leicarumors.com/2020/12/28/a-new-cheap-leica-m-film-camera-is-rumored-for-2021.aspx/ Film photography is not a joke. Before Covid it was going in the opposite direction to the rest of the camera market and was showing sharp rises, particularly among a younger demographic. I have heard Dr Kaufmann speaking about this on a number of occasions over the past two years. One of the biggest issues for him is the fact that his staff have had to learn skills that had been lost in the industry. The photography world is not all about more megapixels and EVFs etc. Go ask some young photographers and they will tell you. William 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrostl Posted December 30, 2020 Share #34 Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Kwesi said: It may or may not be a popular take but that does not make it true. The move towards a higher MP sensor was on the horizon even before the 50/2 APO was introduced. The M10R is a stop gap measure while Leica figures out how to get the Maestro 3 processor into the M11 without sacrificing battery life and also successfully dealing with heat dissipation issues arising from the faster and more capable processor needed for dealing with bigger file sizes. So far, the move towards a higher MP sensor has always been true. You have asserted that, "Leica is not trying to appeal to a wider user base with the M" (among other things) as if it is a matter of objective truth rather than your opinion. It is incumbent upon you to prove this, not the other way around. Edited December 30, 2020 by astrostl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrostl Posted December 30, 2020 Share #35 Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 39 minutes ago, willeica said: Film photography is not a joke. Before Covid it was going in the opposite direction to the rest of the camera market and was showing sharp rises, particularly among a younger demographic. I have heard Dr Kaufmann speaking about this on a number of occasions over the past two years. One of the biggest issues for him is the fact that his staff have had to learn skills that had been lost in the industry. The photography world is not all about more megapixels and EVFs etc. Go ask some young photographers and they will tell you. William I'm not claiming that film photography is a joke, or that you were. I made the comment because you expressed a wish for something one day after the rumor was published. Edited December 30, 2020 by astrostl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted December 30, 2020 Share #36 Posted December 30, 2020 1 hour ago, astrostl said: Trust me, I do. My Micro Four Thirds systems never had/have issues with sensor dust, and it's a regular battle on Leica M and Hasselblad V. If you do prepare yourself for a much larger body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 30, 2020 Share #37 Posted December 30, 2020 1 hour ago, astrostl said: Trust me, I do. My Micro Four Thirds systems never had/have issues with sensor dust, and it's a regular battle on Leica M and Hasselblad V. Maybe not, but for instance the GX8, with a MFT sensor was about the same size and weight as the M240 of the same period, with a full-frame sensor, i.e. four times as large 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted December 30, 2020 Share #38 Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, jdlaing said: If you do prepare yourself for a much larger body. Coming in 2021: The Leica M 6x7. 🤮 Edited December 30, 2020 by Herr Barnack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Posted December 30, 2020 Share #39 Posted December 30, 2020 2 hours ago, jplomley said: please do not modify the M10 form. It is perfect in every sense. Placement of controls, thickness of body, even the matte black finish. +1 Totally agree, or almost. The ISO dial of the M10 never thoroughly convinced me. Aesthetically is beautiful, great throw and feelings. But I do work fully manual, and I change ISO when needed. When I leave the dial down, it costs me a little work with my right-hand switch ISO fast. When it's up, sooner or later, it goes down. I would love to be able to change iso w/ the dial permanently down. That would be very welcome! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrostl Posted December 30, 2020 Share #40 Posted December 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, jdlaing said: If you do prepare yourself for a much larger body. I personally love the M10 form factor and wouldn't want it any larger, but I still have hope when looking at compact FF+ IBIS developments like https://www.fujirumors.com/breaking-new-fujifilm-gfx100-with-ibis-will-be-about-as-big-as-fujifilm-gfx50s/ , https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-a7c-review , etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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