ultimate lens kit for FILM

[oldwino]

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What would be an ultimate lens kit for film use, taking into consideration color rendition, distortion, aberrations, light transmission, etc?  We're talking Leica here, so 28-90mm range preferred.

In other words, which lenses would yield the highest technical quality on a film Leica?

I ask because I have certain older leica lenses which perform better on digital than they ever did on film (for ex. my 2.8cm Hektor). Is the inverse also true/possible? Are there lenses which sparkle on film, but are "meh" on digital?

[Mr.Prime]

yes, the inverse is possible - there are lenses which produce colour fringing on digital because the colour filters are laid out over the surface of the sensor but on film where the colour layers are stacked on top of each other there aren’t such artifacts

 

for me and of course also for some others, film is about character not perfection so we might enjoy a less than perfect lens because we enjoy the look from the imperfections but the best technical quality almost certainly comes from the best modern apo and asph lenses

Edited December 27, 2020 by Mr.Prime

[otto.f]

I like the newest Summicron 28 better on film than on digital. I did not yet discover other examples of vice versa

[Fedro]

for me 28 Cron (current version) and 50 Lux

[Erato]

2 hours ago, oldwino said:

What would be an ultimate lens kit for film use, taking into consideration color rendition, distortion, aberrations, light transmission, etc?  We're talking Leica here, so 28-90mm range preferred.

In other words, which lenses would yield the highest technical quality on a film Leica?

I ask because I have certain older leica lenses which perform better on digital than they ever did on film (for ex. my 2.8cm Hektor). Is the inverse also true/possible? Are there lenses which sparkle on film, but are "meh" on digital?

Great start! Perhaps you can change the title wording to "versatile lens"?
BTW, these threads could be a "massively interesting" topic to learn something new. I've humbly followed this topic with all ears. 
And I'd like to learn the physical context regarding the definition of ultimates, for instance, film type(negative film or reversal film), color or B/W? on what film speed, or even connected to a specific development process and printing(wet or dry)?
FYR, on the following URL, Leica AG already gave us a great impression, or it's just an ultimate marketing script at all?

https://en.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-M/Leica-MP/Images

Especially on this image:

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  Edited December 27, 2020 by Erato

[105012]

The early Summicron 50’s have a great reputation on film, I am seeing very good results with the Type 1 I recently acquired, I am starting to think I prefer it to the later Summicron 50’s I also have! I print in the darkroom. Of course, this is a subjective not objective opinion.

Also get great results out of the APO-Telyt 135mm on film and printed. 

[Ccoppola82]

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28 Cron and 50 Lux v2 are what tend to get used most for me now.  Something about the 50 Lux v2 has made it creep into my favorite lens spot.  At first I thought it was just a few lucky shots...but I seem to be getting my favorite images coming from it. 

[250swb]

It's all hocus pocus, there are too many variables, from lenses, to film types, to processing, to individual habits and the question opens up a whole universe of flimflam and insanity. Use the lens you have, it's more likely to work better on film than digital anyway and the biggest gains are to be made in the technique of film choice, exposure, and processing than an individual lens that is Leica quality.

[otto.f]

10 hours ago, Fedro said:

for me 28 Cron (current version) and 50 Lux

I forgot the 50 lux asph indeed. I sold it when I had my M9, I made beautiful slides with it on my M7 before that

[a.noctilux]

Oldwino,

For me the universal ultimate kit doesn't exist.

Film or sensor, the important (as I've always learned) is the user and each user is different from the other.

So, just do try by yourself to earn YOUR ultimate kit.

Over time my ultimate kit (or lens ), varied a good bit ( dayly or even more frequently ).

 

Just to name my present "kit(s)" : Summicron-M 28 "I" coupled with Summilux-M pre-asph. 50mm very nice with M-A + some good fine grain films.

Other day I would say Summarit-M 35/75 ( or just one 50mm ! ) as "same kit" with fast film.

 

Same kits serve me also on sensors 🙃 without "meh" ...

[oldwino]

7 hours ago, 250swb said:

It's all hocus pocus, there are too many variables, from lenses, to film types, to processing, to individual habits and the question opens up a whole universe of flimflam and insanity. Use the lens you have, it's more likely to work better on film than digital anyway and the biggest gains are to be made in the technique of film choice, exposure, and processing than an individual lens that is Leica quality.

I agree there are many variables, which is why in this case I am interested in technical qualities only, not artistic choices. Surely there must be combinations that are capable of putting the maximum amount of information into a frame of film. There must be a point where one can say, “that’s the best it can be.”

The hocus pocus is where the art comes in...

[oldwino]

The Summicron 28 and Summilux 50 keep coming up. And the Summarits 35 & 75 seem to be really good choices, too. 

[tommonego@gmail.com]

My experience is more with vintage lenses, no experience with 28s, though I have considered a later Elmarit at times. All below have been great on film for me.

35 - presaph Summilux

50 - DR Summicron

90 - Elmarit or Tele-Elmarit

Outliers, 85 f2 Nikkor, 25 f4 Nikkor, 25 f3.5 Canon all LTM

 

 

[bags27]

I've been using mainly the most current versions of the 35 and 50 Lux on my M4-P and develop my own film. When I get it "right," there is very little difference between what I could capture on my M10 and a film rendering, such as below  (except for the water marks I was too lazy to photoshop out). So, what's the point? And now, Leica is planning a new line of M lenses for the next generation of high mps sensors which will further accentuate the distance from the traditional film aesthetic. Of course, this is from a digitized (CL and Sigma 70 macro) negative, so maybe wet printing would show some differences.

For this reason, I'm also exploring the older glass.

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  Edited December 28, 2020 by bags27

[Ko.Fe.]

It depends what do you want from film in digital era. Personally, I have zero interest on something called as ultimate due to some technicalities. 

I'm not considering color film as something for perfect WB and high resolution. Color film never been about it. If we are talking about Leica cameras and film here. Which is 135 film format. 

I liked Rigid chrome Cron with color film. In fact, I can't fail any of old Leitz lenses on film. Some of them are just better on color than on BW. And it is variable impression. I know professional photog who likes how Summar renders on color film. 

While, personally, I can't find anything special about Lux 35 pre-asph on bw film, to me ultimate Leica made lens for bw film is Summarit-M 35 2.5.  It just runs in circles around nothing special Summaron 35 2.8. IMO. On film.

[pgk]

2 hours ago, oldwino said:

I agree there are many variables, which is why in this case I am interested in technical qualities only .....

In that case the latest lenses will produce technically better images on film than older lenses. There is no 'magic', hocus locus, or art in this, they simply represent the most technically advanced lens designs and will produce technically 'better' results on film and/or digital compared to earlier lenses. I have some of each - earlier are less well corrected but have their place, current are technically superior for when technical excellence is preferable.

[Mr.Prime]

kind of what I said in post 2 already 🙃

[tobey bilek]

90 macro elmar is a killer on digital and I was truly surprised when I used it on film.

21 2.8 pre asph was decent on film in 1985,  not good on digital when I tried it last summer. Bought a 24 3.4 which will knock your socks off.

35 2.0 V4 works fine on film and is glued to my M8.   New 35 2.0 is used on full frame digitals.

Every 50 works better and better on each improved version.

BTW the M8 makes outstanding images.  Down features are loud shutter and high iso not so good.  ISO can be fixed if photo is made at 160, blown to 100%,   reduce noise individually RGB,  then exposure increased.   Save that NR setting as it can be used on every M8 image that get exposure increase.  Works with all digital cameras also.

 

 

[bags27]

31 minutes ago, tobey bilek said:

90 macro elmar is a killer on digital and I was truly surprised when I used it on film.

how?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[a.noctilux]

19 minutes ago, bags27 said:

how?

For me very good surprise.

Macro-Elmar 90 or other non-asph lenses work nice on film ( and most also nice on sensor of course ).

With my type of pics, asph. lenses tend to be a bit less satisfied than non asph. ( not applicable to Apo-Summicron-M 75mm asph. which gives as pleasant pics as the non-asph.Summarit-M 75mm ).

As usual, this is individual 😇... not universal.