mbose Posted December 9, 2020 Share #1  Posted December 9, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, first post of a long-time lurker. I have three 50mm f3.5 Elmars and last night I decided to determine their manufacturing dates. All of the serial number lists I can find start at 100,000, and several sites (rightly or wrongly) mention that Elmars started in 1930 at 100,000. I would appreciate anyone's input on this lens. Thank you, Michael Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/315926-early-elmar-50mm-f35-with-serial-number-below-100000/?do=findComment&comment=4095333'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 9, 2020 Posted December 9, 2020 Hi mbose, Take a look here Early Elmar 50mm f3.5 with Serial Number below 100,000???. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jerzy Posted December 9, 2020 Share #2  Posted December 9, 2020 (edited)  5 digit lenses are rare but not unusual. Thiele list of serial numbers starts with 92xxx and numbers as low as 72xxx have been seen. Your lens seem to be 11 oclock, with infinity lock possibly and is probably nickel plated. If my gues is correct than lens have not been converted and is in original status. Produced 1931/early 1932 Edited December 9, 2020 by jerzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted December 9, 2020 Share #3  Posted December 9, 2020 (edited) Similar to my one...11 o' clock, focal as 50 mm - not 5 cm, and 5 digits s/n : regularly coupled (maybe after rework from a non standard ?  see the "o"...) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Thy are not SO rare ... I got mine for 220 Euro... other 5 digits are scarcer (Fat Elmar 90, Hektor 7,3...) ; the really Ultra-rare 5 digits were the first non standard-uncoupled, with number matching the body s/n (Elmar 50 Elmar 135 Hektro 50, Elmar 35) .. I think to have seen only the ones posted by Pecole... 😉 Edited December 9, 2020 by luigi bertolotti Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Thy are not SO rare ... I got mine for 220 Euro... other 5 digits are scarcer (Fat Elmar 90, Hektor 7,3...) ; the really Ultra-rare 5 digits were the first non standard-uncoupled, with number matching the body s/n (Elmar 50 Elmar 135 Hektro 50, Elmar 35) .. I think to have seen only the ones posted by Pecole... 😉 ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/315926-early-elmar-50mm-f35-with-serial-number-below-100000/?do=findComment&comment=4095425'>More sharing options...
Charles Morgan Posted December 9, 2020 Share #4  Posted December 9, 2020 I was quite surprised to find my serial number the other day, 74973. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/315926-early-elmar-50mm-f35-with-serial-number-below-100000/?do=findComment&comment=4095438'>More sharing options...
mbose Posted December 9, 2020 Author Share #5 Â Posted December 9, 2020 Interesting! Thank you for the comments. I am eager to have the two older Elmars CLA'd and compare results from each. 94,964, 398,792, and 1,122,686. May be a while to get time with current pandemic, but will post photos when I do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted December 10, 2020 Share #6  Posted December 10, 2020 Not the only one, also others lens Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/315926-early-elmar-50mm-f35-with-serial-number-below-100000/?do=findComment&comment=4095900'>More sharing options...
Pecole Posted December 12, 2020 Share #7  Posted December 12, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) On 12/9/2020 at 5:17 PM, mbose said: Hi, first post of a long-time lurker. I have three 50mm f3.5 Elmars and last night I decided to determine their manufacturing dates. All of the serial number lists I can find start at 100,000, and several sites (rightly or wrongly) mention that Elmars started in 1930 at 100,000. I would appreciate anyone's input on this lens. Thank you, Michael Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I looked to my lists, and discovered that the following lenses serialled below 100000 passed through my Fontenelle collection : - 37380 engraved on three Elmar (35, 50 and 135mm) that came with non standardized Leica I nº 37380 - 024, 042 and 591 that came with Leica I nº 53024, 53042 and 52591 (this last with three Elmar, all engraved 591) - 434 engraved on Hektor 50, Elmar 35 and Elmar 135mm that came with Leica I nº 49434 - 318 on an Elmar 135mm - 93133 (Elmar 50), 93367 (Elmar 50), 93624 (Varob), 94086 (Hektor 50), 96243 (Hektor 50), 96833 (Elmar 90 'fat') and 99886 (Elmar 50) For anyone interested... 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted December 12, 2020 Share #8  Posted December 12, 2020 7 hours ago, Pecole said: I looked to my lists, and discovered that the following lenses serialled below 100000 passed through my Fontenelle collection : - 37380 engraved on three Elmar (35, 50 and 135mm) that came with non standardized Leica I nº 37380  I did remember right, Pecole... 😎(see my post #3 ... 😉) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan mcfall Posted December 14, 2020 Share #9  Posted December 14, 2020 Here are a few 5 digits and some very early 6 digit lenses I have in my collection. 39910 50/3.5 Elmar 94073 50/2.5 Hektor 94107 90/4.0 Elmar 94345 50/2.5 Hektor 94347 50/2.5 Hektor 94528 50/2.5 Hektor 94735 50/2.5 Hektor 96179 50/2.5 Hektor 96338 90/4.0 Elmar 97008 90/4.0 Elmar 97810 50/3.5 Elmar 98944 50/3.5 Elmar 100673 50/3.5 Elmar 100991 135/4.5 Elmar 102453 105/4.5 Elmar  Here are some 5 digit 73mm Hektors that I have seen, but I do not have one of my own. The small "u" denotes known rare verified uncoupled lenses. 94 140 94 147u 96 492  505  523u  527  543  602u  636 97 156u  157  185u  191u 98 658  674  678  699  715  739  745  755  775  785  809  813 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PG Black nickel Posted December 15, 2020 Share #10 Â Posted December 15, 2020 Hello Alan, My oldest lens with 5 digits is an Elmar 92965 mounted on an IID 72489. The Hektor 73 mm, 98678 is also uncoupled, it is a lens I sold at Westlich in 2016. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted December 16, 2020 Share #11  Posted December 16, 2020 On 12/14/2020 at 8:30 PM, alan mcfall said: Here are a few 5 digits and some very early 6 digit lenses I have in my collection. 39910 50/3.5 Elmar 94073 50/2.5 Hektor 94107 90/4.0 Elmar 94345 50/2.5 Hektor 94347 50/2.5 Hektor 94528 50/2.5 Hektor 94735 50/2.5 Hektor 96179 50/2.5 Hektor 96338 90/4.0 Elmar 97008 90/4.0 Elmar 97810 50/3.5 Elmar 98944 50/3.5 Elmar 100673 50/3.5 Elmar 100991 135/4.5 Elmar 102453 105/4.5 Elmar  Here are some 5 digit 73mm Hektors that I have seen, but I do not have one of my own. The small "u" denotes known rare verified uncoupled lenses. 94 140 94 147u 96 492  505  523u  527  543  602u  636 97 156u  157  185u  191u 98 658  674  678  699  715  739  745  755  775  785  809  813 Alan, I have a Hektor 5cm with SN 96290 which you can add to your list. William 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joncars8 Posted November 13, 2024 Share #12  Posted November 13, 2024 Fist time poster. I am trying to find when my Elmar 50 was produced. Its s/n is 72897. I bought it with a Leica IIIc last year, along with a very nice Elmar 35. That one seems to be from 1946, but I have no clue when this one was produced. I would appreciate any info. Thanks a lot, John Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/315926-early-elmar-50mm-f35-with-serial-number-below-100000/?do=findComment&comment=5696529'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 13, 2024 Share #13  Posted November 13, 2024 Welcome to the Forum !! I'd expect that an Elmar with such a number (suggesting 1929-30) would be marked 50mm, not 5 cm... and with a different focus knob... but some other expert can have other hints... the story of the Elmar is really long and complex. and many were also reworked/updated by Leitz factory, so several odd combinations of s/n and construction details do exist and are reported. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted November 13, 2024 Share #14  Posted November 13, 2024 you may send inquiry to Leica Archive but I believe this lens left the factory in 1945. To USA Army or similar. In this time many 5 digit Elmars were assembled (using previously unused numbers) and send to Army Exchange Services. Distance scale on the flange is like the one from 40-ties. Saying that, there exists low 5 digits Elmars from 1931/32 but the have serial number not visible from outside, it is stamped on optical barell and may be seen only when barell removed from tube. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roydonian Posted November 15, 2024 Share #15 Â Posted November 15, 2024 As reported in an article I wrote for the LHSA's 'Viewfinder' around a decade ago, I purchased 7.3 cm f1.9 Hektor 97157 in 2011. Jim Lager checked his records and reported that it had originally been shipped in mid-December 1931. The Leitz delivery ledger shows that it had subsequently been returned to Wetzlar, arriving there in early 1932. It seems reasonable to conclude that 97157 had been manufactured in HEKON uncoupled form, but had been returned to the factory in order to be converted to the HEKONKUP coupled version. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted November 15, 2024 Share #16 Â Posted November 15, 2024 (edited) 1 hour ago, roydonian said: an article I wrote for the LHSA's 'Viewfinder' around a decade ago, I remember that article, it was excellent with superb pictures! Thank you. I will still have the journal somewhere, although easy to find in electronic archive on LHSA/LSI website Edited November 15, 2024 by pedaes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPangrazi Posted November 15, 2024 Share #17  Posted November 15, 2024 (edited) Il 09/12/2020 alle 22:03, Charles Morgan ha detto: L'altro giorno sono rimasto piuttosto sorpreso nello scoprire il mio numero di serie: 74973. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! From the register of deliveries to the US Army in my possession Your Elmar N°74973 was delivered on 20/10/1945 "Elmar 5 cm, issued on 20/10/1945 - Aufrt. 13243 to the US Army" Edited November 15, 2024 by FPangrazi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPangrazi Posted November 15, 2024 Share #18  Posted November 15, 2024 (edited) Il 13/11/2024 alle 18:04, joncars8 ha detto: Manifesto della prima volta. Sto cercando di scoprire quando è stato prodotto il mio Elmar 50. Il suo numero di serie è 72897. L'ho acquistato con una Leica IIIc l'anno scorso, insieme a un bellissimo Elmar 35. Quello sembra essere del 1946, ma non ho idea di quando sia stato prodotto questo. Apprezzerei qualsiasi informazione. Grazie mille, Giovanni Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! From the US Army delivery register in my possession Your Elmar N°72897 was delivered on 11/15/1945 "Elmar 5 cm , gel. am 11/15/1945 -T.S.F.E.T./ Main, Auftrag 13388 Aufrt. 13243" Edited November 15, 2024 by FPangrazi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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