It's hard to keep the camera level

[pippy]

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8 minutes ago, Steve Ricoh said:

Sure, I suppose my position is that I don’t do landscapes. In fact I like what’s called the Dutch angle.

Thanks for that reply, Steve! Somehat to my surprise I had never heard of the 'Dutch Angle' technique previously so have just read up on the matter. Erm...a bit Odd! I can certainly see why it could be used in a very expressive and creative way, though; subject-matter dependant of course.

Philip.

[Steve Ricoh]

14 minutes ago, pippy said:

Thanks for that reply, Steve! Somehat to my surprise I had never heard of the 'Dutch Angle' technique previously so have just read up on the matter. Erm...a bit Odd! I can certainly see why it could be used in a very expressive and creative way, though; subject-matter dependant of course.

Philip.

It’s supposed to inject a bit of edginess in the image, but don’t overdo it. I don’t go for weird leaning angles but don’t obsess over slightly wonky verticals etc.

[roydonian]

Director Carol Reed used Dutch angles so often when filming 'The Third Man' that fellow director William Wyler (the man who filmed 'Ben Hur' some 60 years ago) sent him a spirit level, with a note saying, "Next time you make a picture, just put it on top of the camera, will you?"

[boojum]

The Third Man was a masterpiece which has managed to still be a marvel to watch.  The cinematography is amazing, Dutch Angles and all.  To me, far better than Citizen Kane.  Just about every scene is an award winner as a still.

[rpsawin]

Maybe try standing with a slight lean...😀

[martinot]

On 11/9/2020 at 12:42 PM, roydonian said:

I'm having difficulty in keeping my M camera level.

Why not simply use the build in spirit level function in the camera the times you lack any obvious horizontal reference?

 

[Tom R]

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I'm not sure that the following exchange ever happened: But, apparently someone asked Gary Winogrand why he "tilted" many of his pictures. He replied, "What tilt?"

[jaeger]

It's easy to do a handstand then keeping a camera leveled. 

[Peter Kilmister]

Handstands are tricky. Correcting levels in post processing is much easier.

[roydonian]

There is no "built-in spirit level function" in the M9 or M-D.

[martinot]

5 hours ago, roydonian said:

There is no "built-in spirit level function" in the M9 or M-D.

I know. I naturally assumed it was a Leica M (240/262) as indicated by your post.

Edited November 15, 2020 by martinot

[jaeger]

On 11/14/2020 at 3:50 PM, Peter Kilmister said:

Handstands are tricky. Correcting levels in post processing is much easier.

you can't be serious!  do you mean I was wrong all these years, I was told I was okay but.. I'm making appointment with my psychiatrist... 

[epand56]

I was using this on my M8, before switching to the M240. Its a spirit level you can mount on the hotshoe. There are many different models. Now there is a built in level in the EVF of the M240 and that's quite useful to avoid tilting and rolling.

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[rsolomon]

On 11/25/2020 at 8:11 AM, epand56 said:

.............. Now there is a built in level in the EVF of the M240 and that's quite useful to avoid tilting and rolling.

 

and it works well, especially;ly paired with my 75 cron.... focus is spot on, level, straight,  crisp ..... lots of keepers 

[roydonian]

Since my difficulties in keeping the horizon level seemed mostly to be confined to wide-angle lenses, I took a series of photos a few days ago using a 28mm lens, but with a Carl Zeiss turret finder in the accessory shoe.

I'd bought this useful accessory about 20 years ago when the thickness of the lenses in my spectacles made the wide-angle frames of the M-series unusable. (I have never understood why the designers of the M-series viewfinder failed to make the wide-angle frames  useable by spectacle wearers.) But when cataract surgery allowed me to dispense with spectacles, it was relegated to storage.

The Zeiss turret finder is greatly superior to its contemporary Leitz VIOOH, since it provides an image of constant size but with the magnification needed to match the selected focal length. At the 28mm setting, the magnification is around 0.3. With this small image, I found it easy to keep those horizontals level.

Problem solved!

[Michael Geschlecht]

15 hours ago, roydonian said:

Since my difficulties in keeping the horizon level seemed mostly to be confined to wide-angle lenses, I took a series of photos a few days ago using a 28mm lens, but with a Carl Zeiss turret finder in the accessory shoe.

I'd bought this useful accessory about 20 years ago when the thickness of the lenses in my spectacles made the wide-angle frames of the M-series unusable. (I have never understood why the designers of the M-series viewfinder failed to make the wide-angle frames  useable by spectacle wearers.) But when cataract surgery allowed me to dispense with spectacles, it was relegated to storage.

The Zeiss turret finder is greatly superior to its contemporary Leitz VIOOH, since it provides an image of constant size but with the magnification needed to match the selected focal length. At the 28mm setting, the magnification is around 0.3. With this small image, I found it easy to keep those horizontals level.

Problem solved!

Hello Roydonian,

To provide more useable frame lines for eyeglass wearers while keeping the same magnification: Leica would have to provide a wider angle of coverage in the same viewfinder window, all other things the same: Widening the angle of coverage within the same viewfinder reduces viewfinder magnification.

Best Regards,

Michael

[Edwinl]

On 11/9/2020 at 6:42 AM, roydonian said:

I'm having difficulty in keeping my M camera level. A significant number of images display a clockwise tilt of about 1-2 degrees, and sometimes as much as 3 degrees. I'm now in my late 70s, and first noticed the problem about a decade ago during my pre-digital phase. I can't recall having any problems when using the Leicaflex, but noticed the occasional tilt in images taken when using my M6. In the last few years, the problem has become more frequent.

The problem seems to one of posture. If I close my eyes, raise the camera into position, then open my eyes, the tilt is invariably present. I can only suppose that this is an effect of advancing age. But if I try the same experiment with my M5, the camera is always level. Having my hands wider apart thanks to the wider camera body seems to correct the problem.

Being aware of the problem, I try to check this, but I often don't notice the tilt when using the viewfinder of my M9-P or M-D. In most cases it affects images in which there is no obvious horizontal object, such as when photographing a street or building in which the frontage is angled away from the camera.

Has anyone else experienced a similar  problem?

 

 

 

On 11/9/2020 at 6:42 AM, roydonian said:

I'm having difficulty in keeping my M camera level. A significant number of images display a clockwise tilt of about 1-2 degrees, and sometimes as much as 3 degrees. I'm now in my late 70s, and first noticed the problem about a decade ago during my pre-digital phase. I can't recall having any problems when using the Leicaflex, but noticed the occasional tilt in images taken when using my M6. In the last few years, the problem has become more frequent.

The problem seems to one of posture. If I close my eyes, raise the camera into position, then open my eyes, the tilt is invariably present. I can only suppose that this is an effect of advancing age. But if I try the same experiment with my M5, the camera is always level. Having my hands wider apart thanks to the wider camera body seems to correct the problem.

Being aware of the problem, I try to check this, but I often don't notice the tilt when using the viewfinder of my M9-P or M-D. In most cases it affects images in which there is no obvious horizontal object, such as when photographing a street or building in which the frontage is angled away from the camera.

Has anyone else experienced a similar  problem?

 

 

I’ve recently encountered the same problem as well - images tilted clockwise by 3 degrees. I was taking photos of a building and I remember that the building was composed upright (I used the frame lines and focusing patches to make sure of that). After I’ve taken the first photo, I looked at it in the LCD and found it look crooked, took 3 more while making sure the building is upright straight, the result is the same - tilted clockwise by a few degrees. It doesn’t happen all the time, but it’s more noticeable when I was using the 90mm Summicron, and not a 35mm lens.

I don’t think it’s a problem of posture. I tried the same camera-holding position with my other non-rangefinder camera and images are upright straight 100% of the time.

I couldn’t find an answer anywhere online. Saw this post and realize that I’m not the only having the same “illusion”. Hope can find an answer here.

Thanks.

[Camaro5]

On 11/10/2020 at 11:02 AM, Jeff S said:

Studies show that people lean a little more to the right, conservatively, as they age.

I've seen that more with my M-P 240.  A little lean to the right.  I have an EVF for it but don't use it a lot.  The first two things I do in post are the lens correction and check the straightness.  I use the transform sometimes if there's a lot of vertical lines but much of the time I can get it close just using the frame lines.  

I don't know if it's good or not that I can always blame it on getting older.  

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Camaro5,

Welcome to the Forum.

Your solution to the problem is a good idea.

"Older" is a number on a piece of paper. And a reason Doctors & some others use when answering why something is a certain way when they don't know the answer.

Jeff's observation, on the other hand, is an example of his sometimes wry sense of humor. Whether it is accurate or not.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited October 11, 2021 by Michael Geschlecht

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[roydonian]

I spent the weekend making digital copies of many of my late father's negatives, and much to my surprise discovered that he had the same problem that I have in keeping the camera level. In most cases I had to apply 1-2 degrees of anticlockwise rotation - the same correction and direction that my own pics often need. I use an M model, but his camera was a IIIb.