What's the point of shooting with other makes of lenses on your M camera?

[Ko.Fe.]

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1 hour ago, Peter_S said:

For me it is simple - not other company (besides PhaseOne) makes a camera with a monochom sensor, or digital rangefinder cameras.
I use three VM lenses (Ultron 21mm - landscape; Heliar 50mm f/3.5 - landscape;  Nokton 40mm f/1.2 - everything!), which do not need to hide from their Leica counterparts.
 

And yours photography is one of the solid proofs of it. You don't have to be too concerned about providing "legendary  Leica quality", because yours photos and their content overshadowing it. 

BTW, every time I'm too afraid to use my digital M in Canadian winters, I have to tell myself - common, Peter took it to the real mountains.

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8 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

 

Winograd was using Canon lenses on M cameras and Frank was using Nikkor lenses.  Here is nothing legendary about Leica lenses in real photography world. 

I see pictures from ZM lenses as good, if not better than from Leica M lenses. Current Chinese makers of M lenses are on pair with Leica M lenses.

Leica lenses have edge on slightly compact build, not always. But it doesn't affect image quality  .

Nor I'm finding your statement about users coming to M due to Leica only lenses to be very accurate. 

What is the rangefinder photography? It is not about cheesy sunsets, dogs, flowers and cute ladies, cars and so on.  It isn't about sharpness, either. Rangefinder photography is about having framelines and both eyes open. And sometimes CV VM tiny lens is better for it, because it doesn't protrude into VF, framelines. 

You need to watch video bellow. Not a word about the lens, it is all about Leica been the rangefinder. This is why many of us have chosen it. Lens is just second part, which gives some variations on rendering, but if image has content of rangefinder photography it doesn't matter at all how lens is labeled. It is about capabilities and understanding what rangefinder photography is and why Leica M is the only right tool for it. 

 

 

I shoot with my left eye and always have so cannot change now.

I can keep both eyes open but cannot see a damn thing with my right eye.

 

 

[logan2z]

1 hour ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Here is another evidence of absurd statements of yours.

In case if you don't know about William Eggleston, he is considered as pioneer of color photography of modern times.

He is using Viogtlander lens on M camera. Most likely one you used to have. This remarkable photographer has no complex about Leica on Leica is a must.

 

 

 

For another data point, see this video about Henry Wessel.  At about 3:30 he mentions the Canon lens on his M camera. 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by logan2z

[lct]

1 hour ago, steve 1959 said:

I can keep both eyes open but cannot see a damn thing with my right eye

Haha in fact my left eye doesn't see anything useful either, at least with VF magnifications inferior to 1:1 (Bessa, R-D1) or at least 0.91x (M3), possibly 0.85x (M6) but i have nothing against mythologies . BTW why did HCB close his left eye here? He was not using a Leica then admittedly .

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[Herr Barnack]

8 hours ago, Gobert said:

I hope I may assume that your statement that Chinese lenses “are on par” with Leica M lensens is not meant seriously.

Don't be silly - the $449 USD 7artisans Photoelectric 75mm f/1.25 lens is every bit the equal of the $14,095 USD Leica Noctilux-M 75mm f/1.25 ASPH. lens.

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[BrianS]

If someone wanted to trade me even for my 75/1.25 7Artisans, I'd certainly take the Noctilux.

But until then- this $450 lens is worth having if you want a fast/short telephoto lens.

7Artisans 75/1.25, wide-open on the Leica M9.

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[astrostl]

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9 hours ago, Gobert said:

I hope I may assume that your statement that Chinese lenses “are on par” with Leica M lensens is not meant seriously.

I am planning to sell my Summilux-M 50/1.4 ASPH because I find the $370 TTArtisan 50/1.4 to be on par with it outside of flare control, which I can easily mitigate. Lenses are tools, and they don't know or care about their countries of origination, price, or brand.

[BrianS]

One of my favorite lenses made for a Photography Instructor in the UK: a rangefinder coupled 50mm Meniscus lens with working aperture. I used the focus mount of an I-61L/D that had damaged glass. He wanted a Diana type lens for his Leica.

[farnz]

2 hours ago, astrostl said:

I am planning to sell my Summilux-M 50/1.4 ASPH because I find the $370 TTArtisan 50/1.4 to be on par with it outside of flare control, which I can easily mitigate. Lenses are tools, and they don't know or care about their countries of origination, price, or brand.

So ... you're actually telling us that it's not on par with it?

For example, you can't say that Europe is the same size as the USA (as long as we ignore Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, the Dakotas, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona Utah, Idaho, Washington, California, Nevada, and Arizona). 

(Please don't take this personally, I'm just trying to illustrate a point.)

Pete.

[BrianS]

My new Nickel Finish Voigtlander 50/1.5 M V2 just arrived. Spot-on with the M9, feels as heavy/dense as my Canon 50/1.5. Nickel and Black finish as nice as my 1934 Sonnar.

Only complaint- I will not be able to post images from it on the "Through Older Glass" thread.

How about if I put a 1950s Walz Hood and Filters on it? Will Pete make an exception?

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by BrianS

[farnz]

11 minutes ago, BrianS said:

How about if I put a 1950s Walz Hood and Filters on it? Will Pete make an exception?

Sorry, Brian, it can't be the current lens but nice try.  You'll have to wait until Voigtlander brings out the V3. 

Pete.

[BradS]

31 minutes ago, BrianS said:

My new Nickel Finish Voigtlander 50/1.5 M V2 just arrived. Spot-on with the M9, feels as heavy/dense as my Canon 50/1.5. Nickel and Black finish as nice as my 1934 Sonnar.

 

 

I anxiously await your review of this interesting new lens.

In the mean time, can you please  post a few photos of the lens itself?

Edited November 10, 2020 by BradS

[astrostl]

1 hour ago, farnz said:

So ... you're actually telling us that it's not on par with it?

For example, you can't say that Europe is the same size as the USA (as long as we ignore Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, the Dakotas, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona Utah, Idaho, Washington, California, Nevada, and Arizona). 

(Please don't take this personally, I'm just trying to illustrate a point.)

No, that is not what I am actually telling you as per, "which I can easily mitigate." The flaring issue is a very minor one in practice for me, and not remotely analogous to missing a dozen of the United States. I find the lens - on par with the Summilux-M - has stellar resolution, contrast, build, handling, and control of most common aberrations. And it's easily user-calibrated, which is a killer feature that I hope everyone including Leica and Voigtlander go on to adopt.

[Guest]

Quite recently i went crazy and bought a voigtlander 21mm f1.4 vm lens because i needed the speed and i wanted a modern style lens.

The other option available is the leica 21mm f1.4 aspherical  which is six times more expensive and an older design.

I believe both lenses are very good performers with marginal difference in performance but i could only afford the voigtlander anyway and its a similar story with my zeiss 35mm f1.4 distagon v summilux 35mm FLE.

I do have a mandler canada 90mm tele-elmarit thin luckily so i am in the leica lens club.

[astrostl]

5 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

Don't be silly - the $449 USD 7artisans Photoelectric 75mm f/1.25 lens is every bit the equal of the $14,095 USD Leica Noctilux-M 75mm f/1.25 ASPH. lens.

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Didn't you lead off this thread by asserting that it wasn't about bashing non-Leica lenses or based in snobbery or elitism?

[BrianS]

2 hours ago, BradS said:

 

I anxiously await your review of this interesting new lens.

In the mean time, can you please  post a few photos of the lens itself?

Very quick Snaps of the lens, and some shots walking around the neighborhood with the Nokton on the M9.

All shots wide-open. No filter, 43mm vented hood. Sun on the shots as a stress test. This is the multi-coated version of the lens.

Posed with my 1934 5cm F1.5 Sonnar that I converted to Leica Mount. This Zeiss lens also has Nickel and Black Finish. Next with the 40/2 Summicron. This lens is compact, like a Canon 50/1.5.

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Edited November 10, 2020 by BrianS

[Herr Barnack]

1 hour ago, astrostl said:

Didn't you lead off this thread by asserting that it wasn't about bashing non-Leica lenses or based in snobbery or elitism?

Yes I did. 

My observation about the two 75mm f/1.25 lenses in question was not intended as bashing non-Leica lenses, snobbery or elitism.  It was intended as comedy relief and a back-handed statement of the obvious due to the fact that some of the posts in this thread are becoming far more snide than is necessary.  At least one has been deleted because of that.

To try to deny that not all lenses with a given focal length and maximum aperture are equal is a flight of fantasy.  That is the point I was I attempting to make.

Maybe Leica lenses aren't the holy grail to everyone - but over the years, I have read more than a few comments in Leica reviews along the lines of "There are Leica lenses - and then there's all the rest," "Leica lenses are second to none," "In terms of image quality, Leica lenses reign supreme," etc.

Jesus!  Why can't we just have a discussion about lenses without some people being snotty and abrasive?  🙄

If I wanted snotty and abrasive, I'd go over to Facebook.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Herr Barnack

[BradS]

23 minutes ago, BrianS said:

Very quick Snaps of the lens, and some shots walking around the neighborhood with the Nokton on the M9.

All shots wide-open. No filter, 43mm vented hood. Sun on the shots as a stress test. This is the multi-coated version of the lens.

Posed with my 1934 5cm F1.5 Sonnar that I converted to Leica Mount. This Zeiss lens also has Nickel and Black Finish. Next with the 40/2 Summicron. This lens is compact, like a Canon 50/1.5.

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Lovely. Thank you. 
does the new nokton has a focus tab? or the magic wand thingy? 
 

aside...the M9 looks kinda chunky. 
 

 

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[astrostl]

48 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

Jesus!  Why can't we just have a discussion about lenses without some people being snotty and abrasive?  🙄

If I wanted snotty and abrasive, I'd go over to Facebook.

Alias: "Herr Barnack"
Statement: "Leica M lenses are the holy grail - they are legendary in the world of photography. They are most likely without equal."
Question: "What's the point of shooting with other makes of lenses on your M camera? Isn't that sort of defeating the purpose of owning and using M cameras?"
Followup: "Don't be silly - the $449 USD 7artisans Photoelectric 75mm f/1.25 lens is every bit the equal of the $14,095 USD Leica Noctilux-M 75mm f/1.25 ASPH. lens. [laughing image]"

Again, as from the beginning, I find that you are exhibiting the exact sentiments and behavior that you state you wish to to avoid. Maybe start by not doing that? 🤷‍♂️

[BrianS]

1 hour ago, BradS said:

Lovely. Thank you. 
does the new nokton has a focus tab? or the magic wand thingy? 
 

aside...the M9 looks kinda chunky. 
 

 

The M9 does look chunky with this lens on it, with the vented hood- not as much. I did think this lens would be perfect on the CL. I've used the Canon 50/1.5 (Sonnar) on the CL- and it is a great combo.

 

No focus tab, the focus ring is wide enough that -at least for me- it is not required. I'm used to the original LTM Sonnars and Jupiter-3 design that this is a natural. The focus ring is easily gripped, and no mistaking the aperture ring for it. I like the winged aperture ring, easy to set the F-Stop without looking once you "get calibrated" to the position of the wings. Same with my classic Sonnars.