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Steve Ricoh

Kodak raising prices again - in 2021

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33 minutes ago, Charles Morgan said:

The price rise. 

As it stands the pricing of Kodak film is too expensive for me and has caused me to consider alternatives and/or approach. With the price rise next year it makes me glad I have digital cameras, and maybe it’s time to trim my analogue holding, or only use for B&W, eg Fomapan. 

Edited by Steve Ricoh

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It's so dreary, I love Tmax 100 and 400, but they have ceased to be a default choice and now become a luxury. I'm beginning to think a Monochrom would pay for itself in film savings. I've given up on colour film mostly, it's just too much money per photo.

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3 hours ago, jwr50 said:

Somehow, I'm struck by the irony of people complaining about an increase in the price of Kodak film and now calling it a "luxury" item . . . on a Leica forum.  😉

Not all of us grow money on the tree.  And some people become rich by counting every penny. Nor this forum is drunk sailors tavern.  

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For me, doing the processing, printing and scanning myself helps a lot to contain costs, even if I choose more expensive film stocks. It requires a low expenditure to get set up to do at least processing oneself, and the other two can potentially be low cost to set up. I do have all the kit to bulk load, but am not doing that at present...

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Film photography is a creative decision for most of us who use film and that's why we stay with it, despite regular escalation in the costs of photographing with film and making prints .  How do you compare the satisfaction of framing a print that marks the culmination of the creative process and decision making from capture to output based on years of personal experience against the rising cost of materials?

It's an easy one to answer for me, I enjoy the creative process through every stage from selecting my film stock, creating the image and deciding on a processing regime .  It's an immersive approach that digital does not encourage, you either get it or you don't and the cost isn't going to change my chosen route.

Material cost increases in film photography are an irritating inevitability, but the satisfaction of holding the end result compared to the fretting over numbers of Instagram and Facebook 'Likes' that others seem to do will always mitigate that for me.  

I'm certainly not going to offload my Leica, Hasselblad and Fuji film cameras because of the rising cost of film.  I'll just be more mindful whilst making images with them.

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3 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

Film photography is a creative decision for most of us who use film and that's why we stay with it, despite regular escalation in the costs of photographing with film and making prints .  How do you compare the satisfaction of framing a print that marks the culmination of the creative process and decision making from capture to output based on years of personal experience against the rising cost of materials?

It's an easy one to answer for me, I enjoy the creative process through every stage from selecting my film stock, creating the image and deciding on a processing regime .  It's an immersive approach that digital does not encourage, you either get it or you don't and the cost isn't going to change my chosen route.

Material cost increases in film photography are an irritating inevitability, but the satisfaction of holding the end result compared to the fretting over numbers of Instagram and Facebook 'Likes' that others seem to do will always mitigate that for me.  

I'm certainly not going to offload my Leica, Hasselblad and Fuji film cameras because of the rising cost of film.  I'll just be more mindful whilst making images with them.

I agree wholeheartedly, and couldn't have expressed it better.

Added to which, as expressed by Kodak Alaris in the link in the OP: “Despite the disruption Covid-19 has caused this year, the demand for film has continued to increase. This has resulted in exciting plans to increase investment in new manufacturing infrastructure."

This is just wonderful news, easily, to my mind, offsetting the disappointment in reading about another price rise.

 

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The cost is what it is. I can't afford to burn through rolls of film like a wannabe Winogrand but, at the rate I get through film, a few quid extra here and there isn't going to matter. I'm just glad they still make it and it is good news that Kodak are increasing production, not scaling back.

I don't see the point of comparing the cost with a digital camera (as made earlier in the thread). One isn't a substitute for the other. Like many others, I use film and digital cameras for different purposes and in very different ways. The cost per click is a meaningless comparison for me. If, in the future, I have to reduce the amount of film photography I do then so be it.

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If we assume our film camera isn't going to be upgraded every four years like many people upgrade their digital camera film isn't so expensive.

If you lose £2500 trading in your £7000 M10R for an M11 and divide by four (or three, or two if the M11 comes sooner) you can instead buy over seventy or eighty rolls of Tri-X 36 exp. per year. 'Oh but I don't do my own film processing!' Well a tank is a one-off purchase and chemicals can still be cheap, £250 to set yourself up with everything? 'Oh but I have no darkroom!' Even colour film can be developed in a hotel bathroom, so when your other half goes out to do what they want take over the kitchen for 45 minutes and do what you want.

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I’m a Leica fan using both an M240 and an M6. I also have a harem of analogue film cameras, a Pen FT included. Used wisely I could more or less halve my film costs, give or take. 

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2 hours ago, 250swb said:

If we assume our film camera isn't going to be upgraded every four years like many people upgrade their digital camera film isn't so expensive.

If you lose £2500 trading in your £7000 M10R for an M11 and divide by four (or three, or two if the M11 comes sooner) you can instead buy over seventy or eighty rolls of Tri-X 36 exp. per year. 'Oh but I don't do my own film processing!' Well a tank is a one-off purchase and chemicals can still be cheap, £250 to set yourself up with everything? 'Oh but I have no darkroom!' Even colour film can be developed in a hotel bathroom, so when your other half goes out to do what they want take over the kitchen for 45 minutes and do what you want.

Here is reality check. My LR folders showed same amount of scans and digitally taken exposures before price increase galore started around 2015.

Thousands in scan and thousands in digital. 60-70 rolls are good but 100-150 are if you are into photography as film M photography is. To me it is active, every day, everywhere photography. And I wasn’t even taking multiple exposures as Magnum ones did. Here is no way I could get new film M. I doubt Winogrand ever did. He was cycling through used ones and those he kept, were in service regularly. All of my film M needed CLA and one which is still in use needed repairs and still needs one for the price I paid for entire camera (as used). Service, parts not only not cheap, but only few places are left to get it done and many have weeks, months up to year to get it done.

Also, another reality check, darkroom chemicals ain’t really cheap anymore. C-41 adds to the cost substantially and even more so E6 kits.

And since you have mentioned triX and darkroom, scans aren’t film photography, darkroom prints are. For anything from 8x10 and larger prices went up more than twice.

I know because I do print in darkroom still and buying paper through all of those price increases.

So in practical film, darkroom photography,, which means practice, which means trials and errors, digital is not expensive at all. Because just as with film cameras here is zero reason to hope on new camera. My digital from 2009 and earlier ones still working on original batteries and in use regularly. 

 

Edited by Ko.Fe.

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Speaking for myself: if I see a company / vendor hiking prices excessively I will cut my dealings with them. 
After Kodak‘s last increase they priced themselves out of my willingness to cough-up. I’m also tending to distance from Ilford unless an offer comes along. Fomapan is far cheaper for B&W, so until they hike excessively they’ll get my custom.

Perhaps I should use digital for colour and analogue for B&W, until eventually it’s digital for both. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Here is reality check. My LR folders showed same amount of scans and digitally taken exposures before price increase galore started around 2015.

Thousands in scan and thousands in digital. 60-70 rolls are good but 100-150 are if you are into photography as film M photography is. To me it is active, every day, everywhere photography. And I wasn’t even taking multiple exposures as Magnum ones did. Here is no way I could get new film M. I doubt Winogrand ever did. He was cycling through used ones and those he kept, were in service regularly. All of my film M needed CLA and one which is still in use needed repairs and still needs one for the price I paid for entire camera (as used). Service, parts not only not cheap, but only few places are left to get it done and many have weeks, months up to year to get it done.

Also, another reality check, darkroom chemicals ain’t really cheap anymore. C-41 adds to the cost substantially and even more so E6 kits.

And since you have mentioned triX and darkroom, scans aren’t film photography, darkroom prints are. For anything from 8x10 and larger prices went up more than twice.

I know because I do print in darkroom still and buying paper through all of those price increases.

So in practical film, darkroom photography,, which means practice, which means trials and errors, digital is not expensive at all. Because just as with film cameras here is zero reason to hope on new camera. My digital from 2009 and earlier ones still working on original batteries and in use regularly. 

 

It's amazing how little things done as encouragement can go wrong, I really hadn't intended to start a pissing contest with a camera snob.

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55 minutes ago, Steve Ricoh said:

Speaking for myself: if I see a company / vendor hiking prices excessively I will cut my dealings with them. 
After Kodak‘s last increase they priced themselves out of my willingness to cough-up. I’m also tending to distance from Ilford unless an offer comes along. Fomapan is far cheaper for B&W, so until they hike excessively they’ll get my custom.

Perhaps I should use digital for colour and analogue for B&W, until eventually it’s digital for both. 
 

 

Perhaps before blaming Kodak or Ilford for 'hiking' prices maybe you should look at the price of silver and how it has changed since the start of the year? Unless you expect Kodak to cover the increase for you. Don't get me wrong, I'd like Kodak to sponsor me, but I don't actually expect it to happen.

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