Washi / Japanese papers for inkjet printing - experience?

[LocalHero1953]

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4 hours ago, frame-it said:

nice pics, any film scans printed in this batch or all digital images?

Thanks! These are all digital images.

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[l-pvn]

Hello! I'm new here. Sorry to bring back this old post.

I'm printing on Awagami paper on my Canon PRO-300. Especially with black and white prints, I have noticed that when I gently run my fingers over the print, they get dirty with ink. The ink doesn't come off the sheet unless you apply some strength... but even then, it's as if the print wasn't "sealed". This has happened both using Awagami's ICC profiles and in black and white printing mode.

Have any of you had a similar problem?

[Stuart Richardson]

This is normal for most matte papers with softer paper surfaces. All inkjet papers are coated with a coating that stops the ink from dispersing (which would mean a soft, muddy print). The coating on awagami is quite subtle and the paper fibers are not dense. The ink sits on the surface and can rub off or transfer more easily than in, for example, a photo black paper with a coating that absorbs and encapsulates the ink more fully. 
If you are worried about ink transfer somethink like Hahnemuhle protective spray can help seal it, but it is hard to seal fully. Inkjet prints are not really meant to be handled…the ink is a very thin layer on top, as compared to something like offset. 

[l-pvn]

56 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

This is normal for most matte papers with softer paper surfaces. All inkjet papers are coated with a coating that stops the ink from dispersing (which would mean a soft, muddy print). The coating on awagami is quite subtle and the paper fibers are not dense. The ink sits on the surface and can rub off or transfer more easily than in, for example, a photo black paper with a coating that absorbs and encapsulates the ink more fully. 
If you are worried about ink transfer somethink like Hahnemuhle protective spray can help seal it, but it is hard to seal fully. Inkjet prints are not really meant to be handled…the ink is a very thin layer on top, as compared to something like offset. 

Thank you Stuart, thats good to know! I love the Awagami papers i have tried so far (bamboo and inbe thick), but was worried that there was a problem with my printer or with the color management. Thanks for the tip about the Hahnemuhle Spray, by the way.

[LocalHero1953]

13 hours ago, l-pvn said:

Hello! I'm new here. Sorry to bring back this old post.

I'm printing on Awagami paper on my Canon PRO-300. Especially with black and white prints, I have noticed that when I gently run my fingers over the print, they get dirty with ink. The ink doesn't come off the sheet unless you apply some strength... but even then, it's as if the print wasn't "sealed". This has happened both using Awagami's ICC profiles and in black and white printing mode.

Have any of you had a similar problem?

I'm afraid prints on these papers may be delicate and fragile - it just goes with the nature of them. I have used them in home-printed home-bound photobooks (allowing at least a day for drying after printing), but otherwise I would protect their surface for display. As Stuart writes, that goes with high quality art prints anyway: friction marks on textured matte prints (e.g. Canson Rives) and finger prints on gloss are a risk. 

The solution is: don't run your finger over the print!

Edited September 29, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[250swb]

I suspect the Hahenemuhle Spray is simply an acrylic lacquer applied in a light coat and similar to high quality modelling lacquers sold by the likes of Tamiya, probably satin finish.

[Stuart Richardson]

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1 hour ago, 250swb said:

I suspect the Hahenemuhle Spray is simply an acrylic lacquer applied in a light coat and similar to high quality modelling lacquers sold by the likes of Tamiya, probably satin finish.

I don't know specifically what it is, but it is truly foul smelling stuff and, at least here in Iceland, extremely expensive. It does help prevent ink transfer, however.

I did my MFA thesis book on Awagami and I used the spray on the front and back covers. That cut down on the transfer quite a bit. I have had some ink transfer between pages where dark prints face white pages, but this is related to the degree of rubbing and handling. If the book is not jostled much, there is little transfer, but the more rubbing, the more transfer, obviously. It is gorgeous paper for a book though! If anyone is interested, I made this book in my studio with inbe:

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Stuart Richardson

[hansvons]

39 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

If anyone is interested, I made this book in my studio with inbe

Hi Stuart, this is tremendous work. Totally get the undercurrent idea. I once experienced on a sailboat what an undercurrent is. A hard-to-see disrupting power. Great metaphor.

Thanks!!

[Stuart Richardson]

Thank you very much! I am glad you like it. I am happy to say I am showing it at the Reykjavik Museum of Photography from January to April, in case anyone is around.

[Ouroboros]

 

17 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Thank you very much! I am glad you like it. I am happy to say I am showing it at the Reykjavik Museum of Photography from January to April, in case anyone is around.

Excellent work, Stuart.  

Incidentally, I used Hannemuhle spray extensively during my time as an Epson ProPortait beta tester around 20-odd years ago.  Apart from it's intended use it also helped reduce the effect of gloss differential on some lustre papers. 

[Jeff S]

On 9/30/2023 at 4:53 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

I don't know specifically what it is, but it is truly foul smelling stuff and, at least here in Iceland, extremely expensive. It does help prevent ink transfer, however.

 

If I used this, I would pay close attention to the Safety Data Sheet provided by Hahnemuhle, which cautions regarding inhalation and ventilation. Discussions elsewhere suggest that this product is the same as Premiere Art Print Shield and Moab Desert Varnish.

Very nice work, btw, Stuart.

Jeff

[Stuart Richardson]

Thanks Jeff! Yes, I used it in an open garage. Would not dream of using it anywhere I would need to stay and breathe the fumes. 

[stray cat]

Stuart, congratulations on a wonderful creation. Absolutely beautiful.

[Stuart Richardson]

Thank you!

[Leah Gordon]

Hi All - I am new to this group - but really enjoying your posts about the Awagami Kozo and Mitsumata double-sided papers - I want to layer different aspects of my prints so want the foreground layer to be more transparent - I have ordered some AWAGAMI KOZO DOUBLE LAYERED in A3 to do tests but I want my final prints to be much bigger - on their website Awagami say that they produce this in rolls 111.4cm x 15m - but I am having some difficultly sourcing the rolls in the UK - does anyone know of any suppliers - I have tried Purely Paper and dpsb who are both out of stock. Any help?

[LocalHero1953]

Welcome to the group!

I bought my cut sheet washi from Silverprint - sadly they are no more.

Try asking Awagami if they supply rolls to a stockist in the UK?

Edited June 10, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[Stuart Richardson]

2 hours ago, Leah Gordon said:

Hi All - I am new to this group - but really enjoying your posts about the Awagami Kozo and Mitsumata double-sided papers - I want to layer different aspects of my prints so want the foreground layer to be more transparent - I have ordered some AWAGAMI KOZO DOUBLE LAYERED in A3 to do tests but I want my final prints to be much bigger - on their website Awagami say that they produce this in rolls 111.4cm x 15m - but I am having some difficultly sourcing the rolls in the UK - does anyone know of any suppliers - I have tried Purely Paper and dpsb who are both out of stock. Any help?

You can buy it from RK Burt & Co. in London. They are either the distributor or one of the main suppliers. They are who I get it from usually. They are a wholesaler but are likely able to sell retail too. If not I am sure they could point you in the right direction.

Fair warning on the double layered -- I found it very difficult to separate without tearing, and that was with smaller sheets. I think it might be really difficult to do for larger prints, but I suppose it is worth a shot.

Edited June 10, 2024 by Stuart Richardson

[LocalHero1953]

It would be worth experimenting whether separation is best done while the sheet is still damp from printing or after it has fully dried.

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Hallo,

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[Stuart Richardson]

Perhaps. I think there is an instructional video somewhere where they attach it to a roll and try to gently roll it off. Personally I think it would be very tedious and potentially risky to do for large prints. I certainly would not take it on as a job for clients, but if you do manage to get it down, I would love to hear about how. I only tried on the sample sheets. I do have a roll, but I actually just like the roll as is, as it is more opaque and more substantial than the regular kozo rolls, but I also got it back when all the paper was a lot cheaper.

 

[Leah Gordon]

Thanks everyone - I am leaving the separation to the printer - but will alert them to the difficulties! I'll post some of the final outcomes in a month or so's time!