Chrome vs Anodised Finish

[Guest]

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Like many here I'm sure, I love the design of Leica cameras. There is one aspect of the modern era 'M' product line that frustrates me though - the finish of camera bodies vs lenses. Nearly all lenses are finished in anodised black or silver, yet the bodies are black and silver chrome (a much less shiny finish), leading to a very obvious (to my eyes at least) mismatch. I know that the appearance of a camera system isn't important to many, but it is to me, and when I can match my M10-D and M-A for example with the black chrome 50mm Summilux, it's a perfect pairing!

Is it just me? Does anybody know why it is? Can anodising not be used over brass perhaps? I can't really believe Leica would choose to do it this way, when every other part of the design is so obviously well thought through.

[Fgcm]

Andy, I agree with you, black chrome and black anodisation are very different.

Leica 262 (non MD, the one with the screen) has an anodised cover matched with the lens. Very nice. I like it.

Many customers complained for the aluminium top, so Leica Made the M10 with the brass cover. Eventually we have heavier cameras and mismatched blacks.

no, you cannot anodise brass. Two different metals with very different chemistry.

Franco

 

[250swb]

10 hours ago, AndyGarton said:

Is it just me? 

Yes.

[pedaes]

35 minutes ago, Fgcm said:

aluminium top

There has never been a 'aluminium' top. Are you thinking of 'zinc' for M6 only? All digital M's are brass.

How do you judge the glossy black paint of the MP? Black paint lenses are rare and mega expensive, yet if BP was offered on other bodies it would be very popular.

Edited October 29, 2020 by pedaes

[Guest]

The type 262 was aluminium.

[pedaes]

3 minutes ago, AndyGarton said:

The type 262 was aluminium.

I stand corrected!

[Guest]

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... so yes, thanks to Fgcm for confirming the reasoning. It's unfortunate in a way, but I guess making all lenses in brass would be too costly (and some wouldn't like the extra weight).

[pgk]

Anodisation is a process applied to aluminium and a few other metals is an controlled thickening of the oxidation layer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodizing. Dyes can be used to add colour. Whilst lenses are made from aluminium so can be easily anodised, the top and bottom plates of cameras use other metals, most of which cannot be anodised. Zinc and titanium have been used on cameras which can be anodised but they have other problems and its possible that the anodisation that the use would not match the lenses. Aluminium probably isn't a very strong material to make top and bottom plates from though and if scratched the damage is obvious and permanent. So to try and answer your question, I am not sure that a perfect match could be easily achieved, and if it could it might lead to other problems. This link may be relevant though https://holzapfel-group.com/en/surfaces/eloxal.html

[Herr Barnack]

11 hours ago, AndyGarton said:

...Nearly all lenses are finished in anodised black or silver, yet the bodies are black and silver chrome (a much less shiny finish), leading to a very obvious (to my eyes at least) mismatch. I know that the appearance of a camera system isn't important to many, but it is to me, and when I can match my M10-D and M-A for example with the black chrome 50mm Summilux, it's a perfect pairing!

Is it just me?...

Doesn't bother me - and I'm pretty OCD about all things Leica.  Black is black and chrome is chrome is the way I look at it.

A black lens on my Safari 240 looks a wee bit off klilter, as does a chrome lens on my stealth black  M10 Mono.  Not enough to get spun up over, though.

I'm more focused on what I'm seeing in the viewfinder than on what my subjects on the opposite side of the camera or bystanders are seeing.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Herr Barnack

[Rob L]

To add to the confusion, the bodies are bead blasted to give them a satin appearance and that effect has changed over the years. My Chrome M10 looks nothing like my M4. And my SL2 has a black anodized aluminum body and an aggressive bead blasted texture, where the SL lenses, which I assume are anodized aluminum are rather smooth like the M lenses. Many of the older lenses like the type II Rigid had an aluminum focus ring, but the lens head and the mount were chrome plated brass and the lenses appeared two toned, especially the old ones.

[Guest]

Herr Barnack (!), I'm talking about the finish type, not colour - we have black cameras in black chrome (most modern Ms), black anodised (typ 262), and black paint (MP film). Silver cameras are silver chrome only as far as I aware. Lenses are mostly black anodised and silver anodised, with a (very) few in black chrome, black paint and silver chrome.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Guest

[Herr Barnack]

2 minutes ago, AndyGarton said:

Herr Barnack (!), I'm talking about the finish type, not colour - we have black cameras in black chrome (most modern Ms), black anodised (typ 262), and black paint (MP film). Silver cameras are silver chrome only as far as I aware. Lenses are mostly black anodised and silver anodised, with a (very) few in black chrome, black paint and silver chrome.

This must be Leica's way of "celebrating diversity."  😎

[Kwesi]

30 minutes ago, Rob L said:

To add to the confusion, the bodies are bead blasted to give them a satin appearance and that effect has changed over the years. My Chrome M10 looks nothing like my M4. And my SL2 has a black anodized aluminum body and an aggressive bead blasted texture, where the SL lenses, which I assume are anodized aluminum are rather smooth like the M lenses. Many of the older lenses like the type II Rigid had an aluminum focus ring, but the lens head and the mount were chrome plated brass and the lenses appeared two toned, especially the old ones.

Thats interesting - I didn't know about the bead blasting.

My silver M10P and 1960 M3 have an identical finish which has also held true for the silver chrome lenses. The silver anodized lenses on the other hand are very shiny and have a polished look to them.

Im surprised that Leica, with its penchant for tradition, didn't at least try to achieve the same look with the new silver anodized lenses that are replacing the identical sliver chrome lenses.

eg. the 50/v5. ( even the silver  ZM lenses do a better job of matching the Silver Chrome M bodies with their champagne finish.

By the way the lens on the M3 is a Zeiss Sonar 1.5 from the 30's.

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[UliWer]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb AndyGarton:

There is one aspect of the modern era 'M' product line ...

You may perhaps think twice whether this is really an aspect of the modern products, if you look at some older ones. One may regard the rigid 50mm Summicron as the classical silver chrome lens. Though at the same time there were other silver chrome lenses with a different look: the first 35mm Summicron as well as the the 1:2.8/35mm Summaron looked as if they were made from cheap alloy. The silver  90mm Summicron looked more „golden“, the classic 50mm Elmar with LTM mount had a brighter silver look, the Elmar with M-Mount looked more grey. Same for the rigid 90mm Elmar, while the collapsible version looked finer and brighter. If you compare the finish of each lens I mentioned with the silver finish of the M3 or M2 which were very consistent, you find that all lenses differ slightly from the bodies and each lens in its own way.  

It is true that modern „silver“ lenses look much brighter - more polished - than the old classical ones, and I don’t like the „modern“ silver  look very much. But on the other hand they are more similar to each others than the older examples. 

[Fgcm]

9 hours ago, AndyGarton said:

... so yes, thanks to Fgcm for confirming the reasoning. It's unfortunate in a way, but I guess making all lenses in brass would be too costly (and some wouldn't like the extra weight).

Brass adds a lot of extra weight. The aluminium top of the 262 saved 100 grams (3oz) comparing to the model 240 it is derived from. A chromed summilux 50 weights some 130 grams more then anodised one.

In my opinion, aluminium is overall a better option. Aluminium alloys are lighter as well as stronger.

Cost wise, differences are close to zero% of the street price. We are talking of grams of metal.

Leica keep using brass only for marketing. Many customers think brass is better only because the scratches are yellow instead of grey.

 

[Guest]

I’m sure there is some truth to the marketing comment, but the annoying thing is they’re not consistent! If lenses were brass too for the same marketing reason, we’d have better alignment of finishing. Or dump it for the bodies and go with anodising, and you’d have the matched look of the Q and SL systems.

[Fgcm]

5 minutes ago, AndyGarton said:

Or dump it for the bodies

Definitely dump it for the bodies

Using aluminium, the M10 would weight more or less like an M9. 

I use the M10 for travel photography. When one walks several kilometers, even grams count.

At circa 580 grams, an aluminium M10 would be the lightest full frame on the market. Pair it with an Elmarit 28 ash or a Summarit 50 (ore 35) and you have the perfect travel camera. 

[adan]

Obviously what we need is a "Cameras as Jewelry" sub-forum. Imagine how much better our photographs would be.

[JoeLeica]

I’m new to Leica, but what bothers me is why they refer to satin silver finish as ‘chrome’. To me, chrome is like mirror finish.

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[pedaes]

16 minutes ago, JoeLeica said:

satin silver finish as ‘chrome’.

Not sure who 'they' are, but generally (silver) anodised aluminium lenses are 'silver finish', and brass lenses are 'chrome', as that is the applied finish. Agree the chrome has a satin sheen, but so do 'chrome' M camera bodies. You then have several black finishes, one of which is 'black chrome'.

If you think of satin chrome you will be good. Chrome as a process does not only have a mirror finish.

Don't let these details bother you, embrace them!

Edited October 31, 2020 by pedaes