120mm APO Macro S lens on SL2 (and S lenses in general)

[bherman01545]

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I was told by a reputable dealer to be careful with the Leica S lenses in general due to faulty AF Drive Motor issues. I don't know if it was a particular year or range of serial numbers, but he said that their reliability is a factor in their somewhat low resale value. 

If you Google (Leica S lenses and AF motor issues) you'll get a ton of hits and is was a known issue and was documented by Leica a few years ago. I believe that these issues have been addressed in their new lenses, but beware of slightly older second-hand lenses. You might want to run the serial number by Leica USA Service to determine if that lens was affected by the faulty AF Drive Unit issue before you buy a used one.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Leica+S+lenses+and+AF+motor+issues&rlz=1C1GTPM_enUS888US888&oq=Leica+S+lenses+and+AF+motor+issues&aqs=chrome..69i57.7088j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by bherman01545
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[ardbeg]

On 10/25/2020 at 5:14 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

My experience with Josh and David is that they are not desperate enough to promote something they don't actually like or think is a good fit for some customers. Obviously they not fully unbiased, but they are also Leica users themselves and unlikely to steer customers towards something that is wholly unsuited for their needs.

Regarding the S lenses on an SL2 body, I agree with Scott. I think the 70mm and up, and the 30-90 zoom are the most interesting S lenses for use on the Sl2. The 35mm and 45mm and even 24mm all do very well on the SL2 body, but they are very large and heavy in comparison to native versions and have slower, louder focusing, so unless you already have them or very much want their specific look, it is probably not the most practical choice.

Can anyone here comment on the 30 Elmarit-S and on the SL2 if possible? Outside of the Reddotforum writeup there isn't a lot of other web commentary on that lens, the 35mm getting much more attention. My only remaining gap in my lens lineup is a faster ~28mm. I own a Summaron-M but am interested in eventually getting a faster autofocus ~28. Of course, the SL 28 will likely come out in 2021 but I am again hesitant due to my aforementioned comments on poor manual focus handling on native Leica SL lenses and the fact that (at least as far as the 120 S and M lenses in general go) I like the rendering of the lower element count lenses although they are less "perfect".

[BernardC]

2 hours ago, ardbeg said:

Can anyone here comment on the 30 Elmarit-S and on the SL2 if possible? Outside of the Reddotforum writeup there isn't a lot of other web commentary on that lens, the 35mm getting much more attention. 

The S 30 and 35 have nearly identical performance. The 30 has slightly more geometric distortion, but it will less noticeable on the SL2 due to the smaller frame.

 

[ardbeg]

1 hour ago, BernardC said:

The S 30 and 35 have nearly identical performance. The 30 has slightly more geometric distortion, but it will less noticeable on the SL2 due to the smaller frame.

 

Thank you.

[Stuart Richardson]

On 11/4/2020 at 5:24 PM, ardbeg said:

Can anyone here comment on the 30 Elmarit-S and on the SL2 if possible? Outside of the Reddotforum writeup there isn't a lot of other web commentary on that lens, the 35mm getting much more attention. My only remaining gap in my lens lineup is a faster ~28mm. I own a Summaron-M but am interested in eventually getting a faster autofocus ~28. Of course, the SL 28 will likely come out in 2021 but I am again hesitant due to my aforementioned comments on poor manual focus handling on native Leica SL lenses and the fact that (at least as far as the 120 S and M lenses in general go) I like the rendering of the lower element count lenses although they are less "perfect".

I think the performance will be very good. It is very good for the 35mm S lens. You should be aware, however, of just how big the lenses are compared to the native lenses and M lenses. They balance pretty well, but they are much larger than the native options. The 30mm is slightly bigger than the 35mm, if I recall. If not, it is the same size. It is also a tiny bit slower. So you get a 30mm 2.8 which is very good, but the 35mm SL lens is much smaller and even better, as well as having better AF. If you do not need AF and auto aperture, the M lenses are miniscule by comparison. Here is a photo of the lenses and the adapters needed to shoot them on the SL2. I have a 50mm in the center as I do not have the 35mm SL, but it is the same body shell as the 50 and the 28mm which will arrive as well. In this comparison, the smallest lens is the fastest, at 1.4, then f2 for the SL version, and 2.5 for the 35mm (would be 2.8 for the 30mm).

 

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Edited November 6, 2020 by Stuart Richardson

[scott kirkpatrick]

Cat saying:  "If you need me, I'll be on your keyboard."

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U1040998 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr  S 100 SC @f/2.0 and 1/5 sec.

The S 100 SC has been living on my SL2 recently. It is a little shorter and probably a bit larger in diameter than the 35 S in the post above.  It handles easily. I have the 75 SL Summicron, but this is longer and a bit more impressionistic. 

Edited November 6, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[ardbeg]

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3 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I think the performance will be very good. It is very good for the 35mm S lens. You should be aware, however, of just how big the lenses are compared to the native lenses and M lenses. They balance pretty well, but they are much larger than the native options. The 30mm is slightly bigger than the 35mm, if I recall. If not, it is the same size. It is also a tiny bit slower. So you get a 30mm 2.8 which is very good, but the 35mm SL lens is much smaller and even better, as well as having better AF. If you do not need AF and auto aperture, the M lenses are miniscule by comparison. Here is a photo of the lenses and the adapters needed to shoot them on the SL2. I have a 50mm in the center as I do not have the 35mm SL, but it is the same body shell as the 50 and the 28mm which will arrive as well. In this comparison, the smallest lens is the fastest, at 1.4, then f2 for the SL version, and 2.5 for the 35mm (would be 2.8 for the 30mm).

 

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Thank you for the size comparison shots. Looks to me about the same length (and possibly diameter) sans hood as the 120.

[Stuart Richardson]

Yes, almost the same size. I put them on the scale, however, and the 120 is about 200g heavier.

 

[scott kirkpatrick]

Here's the S 100, compared to the smallest similar R lens, a 90 Summicron-R.

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S1000474 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

They are both rugged, dense blocks of lens, and handle well on the SL2.  Using the the S to L adapter as a reference, the S35 and S100 seem to be about the same length.

[Stuart Richardson]

The SL is gathering dust, I see, hahaha

[scott kirkpatrick]

The air is dusty here in the Middle East.  We just had some rain, and I can finally see what color our car is.

Edited November 9, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[jhulton]

SL2 with the S100 @ F/2 

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Edited November 11, 2020 by jhulton

[agencal]

Can anyone tell me if this 120mm macro is sharper than 90mm apo SL or 90-280mm at 120mm?

Edited November 11, 2020 by agencal

[helged]

59 minutes ago, agencal said:

Can anyone tell me if this 120mm macro is sharper than 90mm apo SL or 90-280mm at 120mm?

Not sharper. Not optically perfect. But it shows a delicant balance between optical perfection and character. In contrast, the SL-lenses are just perfect. (From one that prefers the S-lenses...).

[Stuart Richardson]

Looking at the MTF, they are all very similar...even performance across the field and above 80% contrast for the nearly the entire field at 5.6. The 90mm APO Summicron has a bit more contrast than the others, especially wide open, but I don't think any of these lenses stand to disappoint anyone. On nice thing about them all is that they are quite homogenous in their MTF performance. Both sagittal and tangential MTF are high and close to each other and the results are pretty evenly high across the frame. In my experience, this means that the sharpness level is very even, which makes everything appear sharp. In lenses that are very very sharp on center but less sharp in the field (the 30-90mm S zoom would be an example), the jarring difference between sharpness and unsharpness is more disturbing than the unsharpness itself.These lenses do not have that problem.

Helge is right in that the 120mm Macro has a lovely character and great bokeh. I have never found it wanting for anything, peformance wise. I have not shot the 90mm or 90-280 zoom however, only the 50mm APO Summicron SL, which I also love.

Also, when looking at the MTF, keep in mind that the charts for the S lenses go to 27mm from the center, while the SL charts to 21mm. So you have to only look at the area to 21mm on the S charts to see their performance on 35mm.

Edited November 12, 2020 by Stuart Richardson

[agencal]

3 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Looking at the MTF, they are all very similar...even performance across the field and above 80% contrast for the nearly the entire field at 5.6. The 90mm APO Summicron has a bit more contrast than the others, especially wide open, but I don't think any of these lenses stand to disappoint anyone. On nice thing about them all is that they are quite homogenous in their MTF performance. Both sagittal and tangential MTF are high and close to each other and the results are pretty evenly high across the frame. In my experience, this means that the sharpness level is very even, which makes everything appear sharp. In lenses that are very very sharp on center but less sharp in the field (the 30-90mm S zoom would be an example), the jarring difference between sharpness and unsharpness is more disturbing than the unsharpness itself.These lenses do not have that problem.

Helge is right in that the 120mm Macro has a lovely character and great bokeh. I have never found it wanting for anything, peformance wise. I have not shot the 90mm or 90-280 zoom however, only the 50mm APO Summicron SL, which I also love.

Also, when looking at the MTF, keep in mind that the charts for the S lenses go to 27mm from the center, while the SL charts to 21mm. So you have to only look at the area to 21mm on the S charts to see their performance on 35mm.

Thank you for the explanation.

Do you thing 120mm also has it’s lovely character on SL2 ? Or is it a combination of S sensor and S lens.

 

[bsmith]

It has an organic, natural character on the SL2. The S120 seems a "touch" sharper wide open than the S100. I like the S100 for women portraits and the luscious bokeh in all situations. I like the S120 for the longer reach, macro capabilities and male portraits. I like the SL 90 Summicron because it's optically perfect, flawless, smaller and as others have said,  more contrasty. My favorite, between all 3, is the S100. It has a distinctive look.  I use the S100 and the S120 more than the 90SL for their "look" and because they are so easy to manually focus. (not fly by wire) It's actually faster to manually focus those lenses than to use AF. Its critical to fine tune the focus since their dof is so narrow. The SL Summicrons are a disaster to MF.  I get many more frames of moving subjects in focus manually on S lenses,  than using any AFC setting on the SL2 with AF lenses.

 

 

[ardbeg]

If this thread keeps up, it’s going to convince me to get a used S007 to augment my SL2.

[helged]

1 hour ago, ardbeg said:

If this thread keeps up, it’s going to convince me to get a used S007 to augment my SL2.

All I can say is that S24, S45, S100 and S120 all draw beautifully... 

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[scott kirkpatrick]

Here are three shots which make nice use of the S 100's rendering

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U1050038 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

U1050029 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr

U1050040 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr