M10-R Workmanship

[1234]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I didn't have much luck with the search engine so pardon if already discussed. And not meaning to offend anyone on the forum...

I received but sent back the next day a new M10-R in black chrome finish. This example was a disappointment after decades of use of all the M series film cameras from M3DS to MP followed by M8 and M240 of the digital series. Those performed well and looked nice too, evidencing a nice design, good machining, good finishing, and quality materials. I found the same thing with the Leitz microscopes, especially the black Ortholux.

Though perhaps already discussed or deemed unimportant, what bothered me were for example the sharp corner and edges of the top plate, cheap looking hardware (buttons, wheels, locking mechanism, etc.), poor engraving, and finish that needed a good scrubbing in places to clean it up. Which begs the question, what economies were introduced into the internals out of our sight?  This camera was to last the rest of my life.

Holding, fondling if you will, alternately the M240 with black paint finish and then the M10-R, even with closed eyes, produced an unexpected sadness. On the one hand, the touch screen, and an additional stop or two of dynamic range, and the extra pixels would all be handy though not imperative, and on the other,  as an engineer the quality of materials and construction were at least as important.

I have never seen an M9 or prior variants of the M10 so do not know if this is a sudden or gradual change over the last decade. Perhaps with the greatly expanded range of offerings, Leica cannot give the same attention to detail as was once customary.

Asked the seller to send along a silver chrome version if they were notably better. I realize that my own value judgment is open to criticism but am curious about the generally perceived workmanship on the newer cameras these days.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[paulsydaus]

Perhaps some pictures would have helped us determine if it was normal or not?  I have the opposite view, quality has generally increased since the M8/M9.  Finished are harder, tolerances are tighter etc.

[elmars]

So it is in my view. Yes, the edges are sharper, but this is design not quality. The engraving is the same like since the M6 days. The buttons are far better than the ones of the M9, perhaps here You can argue the M240 is better, but I would say they are different - a matter of taste. The M10 offers the best built-quality since the M6. 

[intermediatic]

Oh weird. My M9 was garbage quality, like it was made by whoever made the dash for 1970s Volvo had been hired to make a camera for Ronco. I remember having to constantly re-adjust the black rubber covering because the glue had given way. At least nobody would have thought it was an expensive quality. The M240 was a bit better, although from a design perspective quite chunky while both M10R and M10M are fantastic quality and finally  have an elegant design (I skipped the M10 for obvious reasons). Maybe yours was made at 4pm Friday before the summer vacation? 

[Rob L]

Mine are very nice. Yes the edges are a bit sharper. My first Leicas were two M6s bought new in the mid-90s and I can recall having to pick through several to find one that had the cover installation done well. Many had noticeable gaps where the cover butted the rear door or top plate and many more had the cover bunched up in the same locations from being too long.

[Jeff S]

15 minutes ago, intermediatic said:

 (I skipped the M10 for obvious reasons). 

Only to you.

Jeff

[pedaes]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

40 minutes ago, intermediatic said:

(I skipped the M10 for obvious reasons)

Do share.

[coupdefoudre]

Other than the sharp point on the left front corner of the M10 cameras (as one looks from the normal position behind the camera) I think the body quality is comparable to the M240 and see no evidence of less craftsmanship or quality.

(Note: I dislike that sharp corner and have brought up the issue with Dr. Kaufmann!)

I wonder if the difference in weight and heft of the M10-R from the larger body M240 might have led you to part of your conclusion?

I have used the M10 (silver chrome) in a wide variety of environments, except at the beach: jungle, desert, high altitude mountains, snow, heat, urban, etc. Except for some overheating issues the first month, it has been a hardy beast and still looks relatively new. Your issues seem puzzling!

[intermediatic]

On 10/18/2020 at 10:26 AM, pedaes said:

Do share.

M-10 did not offer anything significantly more than the M240. So why upgrade?

A second reason which is not obvious is that I had cataract surgery in January and February 2017 so when the release came out I was not sure what my eyesight would be, but it was successful so I'm happy with the M10-M (which I bought first) and the M10-R. 

Speaking of the M10-M, I was just using it for the last couple of hours. It's easily the nicest digital camera I've ever had in terms of workmanship, up there with my Contax G2, which I still miss dearly (and am still stunned that there is no digital equivalent). 

[Jeff S]

46 minutes ago, intermediatic said:

M-10 did not offer anything significantly more than the M240. So why upgrade?

 

I made the upgrade because: the VF was superior (larger opening, higher magnification and better eye relief for glasses), more robust build with improved weather sealing and higher tolerances, slimmer form factor, elimination of video and simpler controls, better high ISO and dedicated top dial, etc.  Best digital M platform to date. Obvious to me.  Also built in WiFi, which is of no interest to me.  Only downside is smaller battery, but I always have carried a spare anyway.

Jeff

[pedaes]

52 minutes ago, intermediatic said:

So why upgrade?

Pleased cataract surgery went well.

I agree with Jeff's points above, and would add improved (suptle)colour in out of camera RAW files in LR.

 

[Jeff S]

4 minutes ago, pedaes said:

I agree with Jeff's points above, and would add improved (suptle)colour in out of camera RAW files in LR.

 

I didn’t include that because I prefer my own custom profile(s) with either (any) camera. Both of these cameras have a sufficient starting point for me.

Jeff

[pedaes]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

I didn’t include that because I prefer my own custom profile(s) with either (any) camera. Both of these cameras have a sufficient starting point for me.

Jeff

I was adding it for me!

[Jeff S]

1 minute ago, pedaes said:

I was adding it for me!

You don’t custom profile?

Jeff

[mikejettphotography]

On 10/18/2020 at 9:46 PM, coupdefoudre said:

Other than the sharp point on the left front corner of the M10 cameras (as one looks from the normal position behind the camera) ...

You mean the built-in theft prevention mechanism?

[Mikep996]

"This camera was to last the rest of my life."

 

I have purchased "MY  LAST..." motorcycle, stereo amplifier, turntable, camera, sports car, guitar, firearm etc, etc, etc more times than I care to remember.  There is no such thing until you are dead at which point your survivors can say, "that was the last [whatever] he bought!"   

[budjames]

I have an M10, factory converted to an M10-P, and the new M10-R. I have no issues nor have a I noticed any difference in the quality of workmanship. Very happy with both!

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

[charlesphoto99]

On 10/18/2020 at 7:26 AM, pedaes said:

Do share.

Not everyone needs to get the latest greatest model to be satisfied. It's why I skipped the 240 - to me there was nothing to see that made me want to upgrade over my M9 at the time. Time to be happy with what we have. 

OT: my M10-R BP feels nicer made (other than the out of box rf being off) than any Leica I've had so far, M6- on. It's more responsive with tighter seeming tolerances than the standard M10 I had from 2017. 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Gobert]

As owner of an M10 (sold), M10-R and M10-M, I cannot support the opinion of less craftsmanship either.

[intermediatic]

On 10/18/2020 at 10:03 AM, Jeff S said:

Only to you.

Jeff

Nope. It wasn’t a huge improvement (I am a photographer not a collector) resolution wise and given my previous experiences why would I do otherwise? The M10-R and M10-M are great cameras though.