SL2 “not enough power” issue

[RBB]

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14 hours ago, Slender said:

Old design? in the realm of leica this is a brand new lens

Haha yes that's true, but I said older instead of old, don't want to offend anyone 😉. Compared to some Leica lenses yes this one is brand new, compared to the Sigma 85mm f/1.4 DG DN, the design is relatively older. I tried to figure out why the Sigma without IOS and less glass, consumes so much power compared to the Leica 24-90mm VE, is it design or firmware? In don’t know, hope it’s fixable by firmware. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by RBB
typo

[beewee]

12 hours ago, Yuhau said:

Hence I see the  solution  is on  Leica correcting firmware to put in the algorithm smartly to reflect the appropriate battery status for that camera / lens set up . ( 75%--you have a way to go or 10%  -- you are almost done)  

On the other hand, using the above suggestion . we can tell easily the performance yield of what lens or set up will give out of that fully charged battery.  Correction  can be then applied to the lens or set up easily.  

This sounds incredibly confusing from a user experience design point of view. Can you imagine having 55% battery, swapping lens and/or going from single to burst mode and going to 0% battery? It sounds like a customer support nightmare for Leica.

[caissa]

On 12/28/2020 at 6:33 AM, aksclix said:

I have a question about using the power bank to power the SL2. I tried it when my power was low and the alert was ON making me unable to shoot burst or video.. I tried using the power bank during this time but it didn’t help and the alert was still coming on.. what am I doing wrong? 

If I use the power bank, I use it from the beginning (when the internal battery is still full). If the power bank is strong enough, then the camera runs only on energy from the external battery (only from external, so the internal one is unused and the level will stay near 4 bars/full for many hours).

If the internal battery is down, then it is already too late. Then you need a full spare to replace it, because charging the internal from the external is usually rather slow and not such a good idea (only for emergency if in a place without electricity or if you have time to spare as during a lunch break).

I do not know if the camera really has the full view of energy levels (internal state and external state, probably not). So I try to avoid any “low” levels in the internal battery. (Actually I use two Leica batteries and one Anker power bank. The Anker is quite big (26800 mAh ?!) so it is easy to keep the Leica batteries always full or close to full (1860 mAh at 8.4 V). )

So it needs some (a little) planning to avoid running into a too low battery level.

Edited December 29, 2020 by caissa

[beewee]

12 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

The Leica charger has two phases, fast charge to 80% and then a slower rate charge until full.  The Nitecore does one charge rate, so it is faster, but stops sooner (which may not be a bad idea).  If you want 100% charge on the Nitecore, take the battery out when it first stops, then reinsert and let it charge some more until it stops again.

A great way to prematurely wear out your battery. The reason why a ‘proper’ charger such as the Leica one and just about every smart phone tapers/slows down the charge rate after 80% is because charge rates - especially for the last 20% of designed capacity of a lithium battery - have a noticeable impact on its longevity and capacity over charge cycles.

For example when a battery cell is rated for something like maintaining 80% of its original designed capacity after 500 cycles, it assumes a standard charge procedure (fast for 80% and taper down in the last 20%). This spec would get thrown out the window if one were to try and charge at high rate all the time.

 

Some tips on preserving the capacity of your lithium batteries:

1. Charge only with a ‘properly designed’ charger like the Leica one. The Nitecore chargers are primitive and don’t obey best practices for maintaining battery capacity over its designed useful life

2. Avoid storing batteries at full charge if you don’t plan on using it for an extended period (1+ week). Storing a lithium battery at full charge is a great way to accelerate the aging process and kill the cell must faster than necessary. For example, storing a 40% charged battery for 1 year at 25°C will result in a permanent loss of 4% of original capacity. Do the same at 100% charge and you’ll lose 20% of the original capacity without any use.

3. Avoid storing batteries in elevated temperatures (25+° Celsius). Storing lithium batteries at elevated temperatures, especially at full charge, will VERY quickly degrade its capacity. For example, storing a fully charged battery for 1 year will result in a permanent loss of 20% of original capacity. Do the same at 40°C and you’ll permanently lose 45%. Conversely, storing at 40% charge and keeping it at 0°C, you’ll only lose 2% over 1 year. 

More tips here: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

Edited December 29, 2020 by beewee

[Photoworks]

7 minutes ago, beewee said:

A great way to prematurely wear out your battery. The reason why a ‘proper’ charger such as the Leica one and just about every smart phone tapers/slows down the charge rate after 80% is because charge rates - especially for the last 20% of designed capacity of a lithium battery - have a noticeable impact on its longevity and capacity over charge cycles.

For example when a battery cell is rated for something like maintaining 80% of its original designed capacity after 500 cycles, it assumes a standard charge procedure (fast for 80% and taper down in the last 20%). This spec would get thrown out the window if one were to try and charge at high rate all the time.

 

Some tips on preserving the capacity of your lithium batteries:

1. Charge only with a ‘properly designed’ charger like the Leica one. The Nitecore chargers are primitive and don’t obey best practices for maintaining battery capacity over its designed useful life

2. Avoid storing batteries at full charge if you don’t plan on using it for an extended period (1+ week). Storing a lithium battery at full charge is a great way to accelerate the aging process and kill the cell must faster than necessary. For example, storing a 40% charged battery for 1 year at 25°C will result in a permanent loss of 4% of original capacity. Do the same at 100% charge and you’ll lose 20% of the original capacity without any use.

3. Avoid storing batteries in elevated temperatures (25+° Celsius). Storing lithium batteries at elevated temperatures, especially at full charge, will VERY quickly degrade its capacity. For example, storing a fully charged battery for 1 year will result in a permanent loss of 20% of original capacity. Do the same at 40°C and you’ll permanently lose 45%. Conversely, storing at 40% charge and keeping it at 0°C, you’ll only lose 2% over 1 year. 

More tips here: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

So buy the camera, charge battery 50%. put the camera in a display box. Stay home and look at the beauty from safe distance.

Get out and shoot people! just get another battery when your first one does not charge anymore! LOL

[beewee]

6 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

So buy the camera, charge battery 50%. put the camera in a display box. Stay home and look at the beauty from safe distance.

Get out and shoot people! just get another battery when your first one does not charge anymore! LOL

I think you’ve missed the point here.

It’s more about longterm storage of batteries. Let’s say you’re not shooting with the SL2/SL2-S every day or every week because you have other cameras that you prefer to use on a more regular basis (maybe an M camera) but you use your SL2/SL2-S for wildlife or astro that only gets used once every few weeks. In such situations, it’s best to not keep the SL2/SL2-S battery charged fully all the time.

But hey, it’s totally up to you. If you like to needlessly kill your $300+ SL2 battery because you hate the environment and/or you just like to throw money away like a coal roller, that’s your prerogative.

Edited December 29, 2020 by beewee

[Photoworks]

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2 minutes ago, beewee said:

I think you’ve missed the point here.

It’s more about longterm storage of batteries. Let’s say you’re not shooting with the SL2/SL2-S every day or every week because you have other cameras that you prefer to use on a more regular basis (maybe an M camera) but you use your SL2/SL2-S for wildlife or astro that only gets used once every few weeks. In such situations, it’s best to not keep the SL2/SL2-S battery charged fully all the time.

I got your point. I have many cameras too. but I don't want to think about to much.
I use my trusty Nitecore charger when I cam back from a shoot, charge them all. when I pick up a different camera I can just start using them even they may not totally full. 
I have been doing this for 20 years and the only  one that I had to replace where the Chinese copies. The five year old original SL battery still work fine in the SL2

 

Happy shooting

[caissa]

Don’t worry too much about optimal use of the battery. Think more about the optimal use of your camera - it was far more expensive.

Daily use is no problem at all. But if you take a half-year trip around the world without camera, then think about how to store the battery. Or better give the camera to a person to care for it in the meantime. 🤓🤔

[caissa]

The next generation of accumulators (batteries) will probably allow several thousand (2k-3k) cycles and will not have this problem anymore. But it is still unclear when this will move from the lab to the factory and finally to BP-SCL4 batteries. (Probably still many years away.) 😇🥳

Edited December 29, 2020 by caissa

[Syu]

Anyway, it's a bad thing. It's hard to accept being on the street with a huge backup power supply - and the battery is still very good. It's hard to imagine that you need to master a lot of skills to maintain a battery - now 2021, not 2001.

[michali]

3 hours ago, Syu said:

Anyway, it's a bad thing. It's hard to accept being on the street with a huge backup power supply - and the battery is still very good. It's hard to imagine that you need to master a lot of skills to maintain a battery - now 2021, not 2001.

 No huge backup power supply needed. At best just an extra battery or 2 are required, as is the case with any digital camera I've ever used.  At worst a portable charger in the bag. 

I do photographic safaris in remote locations without mains power and am often out in the bush from sunrise well into the night, I've never run out of juice with any of my cameras. Plan ahead.

I really think that many people underestimate how much power these cameras draw with all the features that are built into them & of course also having to drive the AF lens motors. Some camera manufacturers' batteries last longer than others, but either way, for long shooting sessions at some point you're going to need a spare battery or back up. 

Edited December 30, 2020 by michali

[scott kirkpatrick]

I don't understand the scolding tone that some of us take on this subject.  Batteries with 3 to 6 times the energy capacity of our SL or CL batteries and 3-6 times the weight and volume are available and can be carried in a pocket or strapped to the bottom of the camera for long days in the field.  For video which doesn't tolerate brief unscheduled interruptions, this may be necessary now that cameras are starting to no longer halt every 29 minutes.  And for peace of mind, recharge a battery before it gets too low for harsh duties  like continuous shooting or video at high bandwidth.

No manufacturer of something sophisticated like a camera or less expensive than an electric car wants to make their own batteries, so they buy them.  And battery technologies take a long time to become obsolete and be replaced.  When I worked on portable computing technologies, I plotted energy densities starting with the voltaic cell and ending with the Li ion polymer batteries that are used today, -- over 100 years.  You could see that the doubling time for battery technologies is roughly ten years, not 18-24 months as in Si logic and memory.  Maybe all the research that has gone into electric vehicles and utility power storage has brought this down a bit, maybe to 5 years.  So waiting for next year's batteries will not change much.

[caissa]

It takes very little googling to find the size and weight of power banks. They are not “huge” at all, or just for toddlers.

A few years ago there were long big electric torches made of metal with two or three ‘D cell’ batteries in the handle. They were big, but this made them popular, because they could also be used for defense (in the security trade), not just for illumination.

Modern batteries are usually quite small and light and contain far more energy at a reasonable price. But as charging needs some time, some planning is also required. Just as you needed to buy in time some films in the pre-digital era and needed to protect them and send them to get developed. No unsolvable problem, really.

The “strong” flash I used 15 years ago had a much bigger power source in comparison, and it was heavy and not ergonomic.

Edited December 30, 2020 by caissa

[Syu]

1 hour ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

I don't understand the scolding tone that some of us take on this subject.  Batteries with 3 to 6 times the energy capacity of our SL or CL batteries and 3-6 times the weight and volume are available and can be carried in a pocket or strapped to the bottom of the camera for long days in the field.  For video which doesn't tolerate brief unscheduled interruptions, this may be necessary now that cameras are starting to no longer halt every 29 minutes.  And for peace of mind, recharge a battery before it gets too low for harsh duties  like continuous shooting or video at high bandwidth.

No manufacturer of something sophisticated like a camera or less expensive than an electric car wants to make their own batteries, so they buy them.  And battery technologies take a long time to become obsolete and be replaced.  When I worked on portable computing technologies, I plotted energy densities starting with the voltaic cell and ending with the Li ion polymer batteries that are used today, -- over 100 years.  You could see that the doubling time for battery technologies is roughly ten years, not 18-24 months as in Si logic and memory.  Maybe all the research that has gone into electric vehicles and utility power storage has brought this down a bit, maybe to 5 years.  So waiting for next year's batteries will not change much.

trust me ,  it's not blame, that's true love   : )

It's not hard to take a backup battery. In fact, most people usually take two with them. However, when the battery indication is still sufficient, it is still a very troublesome thing to have to replace the battery. Especially in this winter. The power consumption will be very fast. If the notice is displayed when the battery is below 30%-25%, I think it will be more in line with expectations.

[aksclix]

If you’re looking for compact setup... did you miss seeing mine? I even got a cable that’s if the right size.. it’s super sweet and fits perfect 

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[RBB]

Look at the battery level 😢 (Panasonic 70-200mm f/2.8 + 2x teleconverter)

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[hillavoider]

10 hours ago, RBB said:

Look at the battery level 😢 (Panasonic 70-200mm f/2.8 + 2x teleconverter)

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Yep the SL2 is a lemon, if it was a car it would have been recalled by now 

Leica said it had eye AF but it has nothing close 

Leica said it’s a hybrid camera but it cannot shoot 4K or burst shooting 

 

hopeless absolutely hopeless 

[aksclix]

If the SL2 didn’t warn the users I guess it would’ve been an R5 😁

These cons are a pain for sure but if I were to make a fresh new decision to buy this today knowing all the issues with SL2, I think I would still go ahead and buy it.. in fact the only thing I now regret is how good the used market deals have become for this camera.. I paid full price + taxes 😥 I could’ve saved a minimum of $2K had I bought used but that’s scary though.. considering some EVFs straight out of the box had some crazy marks.. (first hand experience at that) 

these pros would still make me buy it again

- amazing IQ

- amazing evf & LCD

- it’s still hybrid although it may not compare to other better video options

- 47MP allowing me to use TL lenses comfortably

- ability to use Leica glass on a native Leica body!! 
- it’s a beautiful looking camera!! 

others may have more to add.. 

[BernardC]

21 hours ago, RBB said:

Look at the battery level 😢 (Panasonic 70-200mm f/2.8 + 2x teleconverter)

Just curious, do you get the same message without the teleconverter?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[RBB]

6 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Just curious, do you get the same message without the teleconverter?

Didn't try, just switched the battery, can do that next time