First M Camera:Bang for buck first lens?

[TomB_tx]

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I find high speed more useful on wide lenses, as for indoor low-light work you tend to work closer to the subject, and the wide gives more context to the shot. So the VC 35 1.4 II (mine is MC) is a good, functional fit. For 50 I find f2-2.5 more than adequate on M10.

[astrostl]

1 hour ago, Cayenne said:

It was pointed out since I'm going for the M10 Monochrom, sharpness is likely my main target for the 35mm as that it will be on the camera the most.

Any votes between the :

• Voigtlander Ultron 35/2
• Voigtlander Nokton Classic 35mm f/1.4 II MC

If "sharpness" is your main target I'd go with the 35/2 and it wouldn't be a close call. I'd still take the 35/1.7 over the 35/2 because it's much more of a known quantity and has been technically assessed as excellent six ways from Sunday over the years while the 35/2 is new and less-reviewed. As no direct comparisons appear to exist, the take so far seems to be that the 35/1.7 has the optical edge and the 35/2 has the size/ergo edge. CameraQuest is the main USA importer of Voigtlander and has used 35/1.7s in stock for $500.

[Jean-Michel]

The real challenge is to find a lens that is not capable of producing sharp results! All that one needs is to find a well constructed lens – new or used – from a reputable manufacturer, be it Leica, VC or Zeiss, buy it and use it.  AND print the images. Yes, there are differences between lenses, mostly subtle. I own a 35 Summicron version 1 (with goggles) from 1962 and the version 5 from a couple of years ago. There is a pronounced difference in contrast from the two lenses wide open (f/2), then the differences diminish to nothingness; in either cases lovely prints can be made and enjoyed. Similarly there are small differences between my 50 'rigid' Summicron and my current version one. I happen to have two 35's and two 50's from different vintages but, really, any one would be fine alone. The older ones now sit on a shelf and are mostly unused, mainly so that I can justify to myself why I spent substantial sums to buy the new ones.

Just like anyone else, I peruse the various test results for cameras and lenses since the advent of digital imagery. The differences between lenses are quite clear when viewed at 100% on a 5k Retina screen – wow! But I have yet to have anyone ask me what camera or lens I used for a print, let alone anyone asking me if the image was made with a version 1, 3, 6 or plastic lens!

To the OP: pick any lens that a reputable Leica dealer has on offer, buy it, use it and get to know it. And PRINT. If you do not print it, it will not exist.

Getting off my high horse now 🙂

Jean-Michel

[Cayenne]

3 hours ago, astrostl said:

If "sharpness" is your main target I'd go with the 35/2 and it wouldn't be a close call. I'd still take the 35/1.7 over the 35/2 because it's much more of a known quantity and has been technically assessed as excellent six ways from Sunday over the years while the 35/2 is new and less-reviewed. As no direct comparisons appear to exist, the take so far seems to be that the 35/1.7 has the optical edge and the 35/2 has the size/ergo edge. CameraQuest is the main USA importer of Voigtlander and has used 35/1.7s in stock for $500.

Hey, thanks for the link.

That 1.7 might solve all problems.

I initially put this out of consideration as that I saw it was out of production.

But if this is a trustworthy used site, then the price is right.

I'll definitely look into this!!

 

Thank you,

C

[astrostl]

6 minutes ago, Cayenne said:

That 1.7 might solve all problems.

I initially put this out of consideration as that I saw it was out of production.

But if this is a trustworthy used site, then the price is right.

When it comes to Voigtlander CameraQuest isn't just a trusted site, it's THE trusted site. Check out their About Us section.

The optics are generally stellar but I'll note a few things about the 35/1.7 that aren't for everyone:

- hourglass barrel shape (I honestly dig it)
- large unvented lens hood (I replaced it with an el cheapo from eBay)
- small scalloped focus ring (it doesn't bother me at all)

Like many other third-party lenses it also focuses down to 0.5m, which is a value-add for EVF cameras and can be an annoyance for rangefinders. Because rangefinders only focus down to 0.7m, you can keep turning the focus ring without any awareness that you're actually focused too closely and blow your shots. The "fix" is to not condition yourself or uncondition yourself from racking focus to the closest distance. The 35/2 Ultron is the same way. I don't dig its mixed colors, tiny size, or focus lever so we're all picky

[CosmoM3]

5 hours ago, Cayenne said:

Just curious, what are some good reputable places to buy used Leica lenses online?  I looked at KEH and they don't have much of what I'm currently looking for...and seem kinda low on M mount lenses in general?

 

Again, thank you in advance!!

cayenne

Not a fan of KEH as they charge you full price as if they include other accessories with full packaging - which will affect your resale value if you decide to sell it later.

 

look into Leica Store Miami's used sectiom

[astrostl]

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PopFlash is a great vendor and their 'DEMO' stuff is actually unused (Leica does not permit NEW retail product to be discounted...). I've bought privately from the "LEICA Classifieds" Facebook group as well, after cross-referencing the seller with LinkedIn. That's how I got my CV 35/1.2 III.

[J.Nordvik]

RE: Voigtländer Nokton 1,4/35 and Summarit 2,5/35

I have had both. The Nokton is obviously a lens for low light and thin depth of view, anything else and it is not the best choice. It is not a universal lens by any means, and it should not be a first lens for anyone new to Leica M.

The Summarit on the other hand could be a contender for a first lens, but It is not sharp in the corners at infinity at any f-stop. It also have too much CA for my liking. It is very small and well build though, so I did buy it for a second time. And for the second time I got disappointed. If you do not shoot at infinity or have backlight at close focus it could probably be a nice lens.

 

My recommendation for a first lens is Zeiss Planar ZM 2,0/50. It is as good as a Leica Summicron v5, but without focus shift.

[Ko.Fe.]

1 hour ago, J.Nordvik said:

RE: Voigtländer Nokton 1,4/35 and Summarit 2,5/35

I have had both. The Nokton is obviously a lens for low light and thin depth of view, anything else and it is not the best choice. It is not a universal lens by any means, and it should not be a first lens for anyone new to Leica M.

The Summarit on the other hand could be a contender for a first lens, but It is not sharp in the corners at infinity at any f-stop. It also have too much CA for my liking. It is very small and well build though, so I did buy it for a second time. And for the second time I got disappointed. If you do not shoot at infinity or have backlight at close focus it could probably be a nice lens.

 

My recommendation for a first lens is Zeiss Planar ZM 2,0/50. It is as good as a Leica Summicron v5, but without focus shift.

I have 35 1.4 ii, one OP was asking about, if I’m not mistaken. It is special lens only at f1.4 and else is just fine. Nothing special and sharp.

I never had sharpness issues with my 35 2.5. It is sharp on entire frame. 

On digital I cannot see difference between those two at 2.5 and smaller.

Leica lens has better build than Cosina lens, which has just good build, but not as smooth as my Summarit-M.

[J.Nordvik]

I had to look up some pictures from the Summarit, and it was not as bad as I thought it was. It was really horrible on Leica TL though. CA all over, but I use non-Leica adaptor. 

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[J.Nordvik]

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[Einst_Stein]

Any Leica 35mm or 50mm between f2 ~ f2.8 will not fail you. Used is fine, just get it from reputable used vendors. ... B&H, Adorama, Leica SF, (or any authorized Leica dealer), or KEH. 

Since this is your first lens on Leica, make sure to stay with Leica, pass Voigtland or Zeiss.  Not that they are no good,  but that is the only way for you get into the Leica world.

Any other brand should stay behind till you developed the appreciation of what it means a real Leica.

[astrostl]

58 minutes ago, Einst_Stein said:

Since this is your first lens on Leica, make sure to stay with Leica, pass Voigtland or Zeiss.  Not that they are no good,  but that is the only way for you get into the Leica world.

Any other brand should stay behind till you developed the appreciation of what it means a real Leica.

I own Kipon, Leica, Voigtlander, and ZEISS M lenses and totally disagree with this take. Leica makes some great lenses, but so do others. No brands are magical.

[Guest]

On 10/8/2020 at 6:19 AM, ChrisL said:

Depending on your focal length preferences, either the Zeiss Planar 50mm f/2 or Voigtlander Nokton version iii 35mm f/1.2.  Very affordable compared to least expensive Leica glass and will give you the opportunity to find your focal length sweet spot before betting the farm.  I bought both.  Here’s a shot from the Zeiss on my M10P under challenging circumstances (indoors, backlit).  Please ignore the fact that I focused on the bite of pie rather than her eyes - apparently I was distracted and hungry.  🤣

 

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Edited October 10, 2020 by ChrisL
I meant to say Planar, not Biogon, in original post. Sorry for any confusion.

[Einst_Stein]

2 hours ago, astrostl said:

I own Kipon, Leica, Voigtlander, and ZEISS M lenses and totally disagree with this take. Leica makes some great lenses, but so do others. No brands are magical.

You missed Meyer-Optik, 7Artisans, TTartisan, Venus Optics, etc. They all have some good stuffs. They all have their own special personality. They can all be mounted on any non-Leica mirrorless camera (through adapter, of course). If that's good enough, why buy Leica M? 

 

 

 

 

[lct]

5 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

If that's good enough, why buy Leica M? 

Because all lenses have not the same character, the same size, the same look, etc. Just to take an example, Leica doesn't make compact lenses like Summilux 35/1.4 pre-asph or Summicron 35/2 v4 anymore. It's up to them but i'm glad too be able to use little gems like Ultron 35/2 asph or Nokton 35/1.4 SC v2 to fill the gap.  

[astrostl]

12 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

You missed Meyer-Optik, 7Artisans, TTartisan, Venus Optics, etc. They all have some good stuffs. They all have their own special personality. They can all be mounted on any non-Leica mirrorless camera (through adapter, of course). If that's good enough, why buy Leica M? 

I didn't miss them. I was listing the lenses I currently own and with which I have personal experience. I think the answer to your question is already in the response you quoted: because "Leica makes some great lenses" (too). If you're moving the goalposts to why one should even use the M system, I think that's fully out of scope for this thread.

[otto.f]

What does bang for the buck mean in your language? I get the impression that people tend to give advices like the cheapest lens possible on an M. A Summilux 35 pre-FLE is appreciated by quite some forum members here as a wonderful bang for its buck. Less extreme though, I think the 50 Elmar-M collapsible is an astounding lens for its price and for the time when it was produced. Personally I have the impression it can concur quite well with the 50 APO - on a Monochrome that is. The Summaron 35/2.8 from the sixties is also very sharp, has a nice bo-keh and is quite indestructible. 

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[Cayenne]

Hello all,

First let me say THANK YOU for all the great advice...I'm taking lots of notes and researching.

My original M10 used monochrom deal fell through.

But I had the 'fever'...and kept looking.

I got what I believe is a decent deal at PopFlash Photo and pulled the tripper on it just now.  I got the M10 Monochrom NIB and since I paid a bit more than my original deal I was trying for, I looked long and hard on getting one good lens to start with.

I ended up with the Voightlander Ultron F/2...as that from what I read and saw, it had good sharpness, but also some "classical" look to it.

I think this will be great for all B&W shooting.

I do have a follow up question please:

Since I"m shooting B&W only....I'm thinking a good orange filter might be good to get too, since there is no tuning of colors in post like with a color camera.

I believe the Ultron has a 39mm filter size.

Can anyone recommend a good filter brand and what color(s) to get to start out with?  It appears the Leica filters are over $100 each....should I go for that, or is there a 3rd party that is just as good?

I know I need quality, as that I don't want to bugger up my lens with poor quality filters.

 

I'm so excited, hope I get it by next weekend.

Thank you all for helping me get started on this new adventure!!

cayenne