50mm frame lines 🤔

[sergiomarried]

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Hi again community,

During my last days with my recently acquired 50 Summilux Asph I’ve realized that at close distances (about 1,5m and closer) there’s a very pronounced inaccuracy if the frame lines, I’d guess it’s about 1-2cm at least? It seems to be more pronounced on the bottom frame line when  shooting horizontally but also observed above of course. I’m obviously familiarized and fully aware of the rangefinder parallax design effects but I thought they mechanism was pretty much correcting this... Moreover, am I crazy or I’ve seen it more pronounced when mounting the 50mm compared to 35mm? If this is totally normal, how do you usually handle this? Just trying to guess more room for framing?

Thanks a lot!

Sergio

[pop]

There are two effects. One is the parallax which you mention. The other is that the lens covers a narrower field of view at close distances than at infinity. The Leica Rangefinder does not compensate for this effect. Therefore, it will at close range indicate more than will actually be visible in the image. At infinity it will indicate less. Live with it.

[Michael Hiles]

I once read that at “infinity” the outside of the frame is fairly close to what appears on the negative, while at close distances the inside of the frame is close to accurate. This seems reasonable for the 50mm on an M3 – but I never checked.

[M11 for me]

In the instruction manual this is well described. Its actually important to know when framing.

See p. 158 in the German/English booklet.

Edited September 27, 2020 by M10 for me

[Jeff S]

4 hours ago, sergiomarried said:

Hi again community,

During my last days with my recently acquired 50 Summilux Asph I’ve realized that at close distances (about 1,5m and closer) there’s a very pronounced inaccuracy if the frame lines, I’d guess it’s about 1-2cm at least? It seems to be more pronounced on the bottom frame line when  shooting horizontally but also observed above of course. I’m obviously familiarized and fully aware of the rangefinder parallax design effects but I thought they mechanism was pretty much correcting this... Moreover, am I crazy or I’ve seen it more pronounced when mounting the 50mm compared to 35mm? If this is totally normal, how do you usually handle this? Just trying to guess more room for framing?

Thanks a lot!

Sergio

The M10 frame lines are optimized for a distance of 2m (The original M8 was .7m, the M8.2 was 2m, the M9 was 1m, etc).  Framing will be tighter, or looser, respectively, when subjects are closer or farther away.  
 

This happens because the angle of view on an M changes with subject distance. 
 

Jeff

[adan]

Sergio: Sometimes a picture works better than 1000 words.

Here's my original picture from the M10 FAQ thread, explaining why Leica M framelines behave the way you describe. As you say, the framelines move to compensate for parallax (the fact that the lens is 5cm down and to the right of the viewfinder > V). But cannot compensate for the extra magnification factor you get when focused closer than 2 meters (or for that matter the lower magnification factor at farther than 2 meters). You get more than you frame at long distances, and less than you frame at short distances.

Historically, in the film cameras, Leica set the frame sizes for the worst-cropping case - closest focus distance (1 meter in the M3). On the assumption that a negative could always be cropped to match what was seen (and often was, by slide mounts or negative holders). This avoided cutting off the tops of heads, but made for loose and wasteful framing for long distances (e.g. landscapes)

As Jeff says, the digital Ms have bounced around in setting the optimum framing distance. 2 meters is now the "compromise" distance.

It also explains that, yes, it will happen more with a 50mm than a 35mm - the 50mm lens moves away from the sensor more to focus at 0.7m. You are not crazy.

And, of course, pressure on the shutter button can cause the camera to point up or down a fraction at the moment of exposure (or even tilt side-to-side), leading to off-center or tilted framing. If the framing is absolutely critical down to the mm, allows extra room to crop some pixels later for the exact framing you want.

Realistically, a rangefinder viewing system is best thought of as a way to point the camera (aim the center patch, like a rifle scope), not a way to get perfect edges.

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Edited September 29, 2020 by adan

[sergiomarried]

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Thank you so much everyone for the explanations. Absolutely perfect reasoning and to be fully honest I was not aware of this but it makes sense now that you described it 😅

I’ll have to be extra careful with the 50mm at close distances... Just another factor to worry about, I hope it becomes natural after some time...

Best regards!

[a.noctilux]

Don't worry, Sergio, you will find over time other "weird things" in M system.

Just take it easy, practice is the only way to "learn and use".

Most things become natural, after some practices.

Some may not, but you don't have to accept all weird things to use the M System to produce what you want.

Don't worry...

As this accurate framing, when I need with my M10, I just use (rarely) the LV to check when it's important.