Copy stand for SL2?

[charlesphoto99]

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4 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Thanks for the link. What are the respective exposures you use for the Sunray compared to the Kaiser. I have the latter, and need exposures of the order of a second at f/8 (ISO 100).

For the Sunray, I'm using a Nikon D850 at iso 64 with a Tokina 100mm macro at f/18, typical base exposure is generally 1/60th of second though can vary from 1/15th to 1/100th depending on the density of the neg. So quite a bit brighter than the Kaiser (that's at the Sunray's brightest setting). 

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[LocalHero1953]

6 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said:

For the Sunray, I'm using a Nikon D850 at iso 64 with a Tokina 100mm macro at f/18, typical base exposure is generally 1/60th of second though can vary from 1/15th to 1/100th depending on the density of the neg. So quite a bit brighter than the Kaiser (that's at the Sunray's brightest setting). 

It looks attractive, not least for the dedicated negative holders. Can you slide a strip of 35mm freely through the holder or do you have to open and close it for each frame? And I assume it's a cold light source, so no overheating risks?

My problem would be the cost of importing, and taxes etc. 

Edited March 16, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[charlesphoto99]

1 minute ago, LocalHero1953 said:

It looks attractive, not least for the dedicated negative holders. Can you slide a strip of 35mm freely through the holder or do you have to open and close it for each frame? And I assume it's a cold light source, so no overheating risks?

My problem would be the cost of importing, and taxes etc. 

Yes, negs just slip in the holders. I actually use a Negative Supply Pro 35mm holder, but do use the Skier 120 and 35mm slide holders. It does create some heat, but nothing that could damage a neg for slide imo - and it being me, it's been left on accidentally for hours with a neg in place with no visible harm. 

[Donald M]

On 3/15/2023 at 1:00 PM, Karl Delandsheere said:

Damn, it took me so long to remember about this thread. Sorry Donald! Anyway, a few months ago, I contacted Rotscout and I think (when the time is right) I'm going to go with their solution. The only question remaining now is wether I get the full kit with their copy bases or prefer the Valoi system. Hard to choose because both looks pretty good and seems to have advantages over one another.

Any thoughts on that?

Cheers!

I use the Rotscout system with the led film base. Not from Kaiser anymore, but Rotscout sent a brighter led light with neutral colour profile. This way you have considerably more light than with the Kaiser. With the permanent led light you can perfectly adopt the F value to the negative or slide at hand. With a flashlight based system this is a bit hit or miss I think. But I don’t have experience with that.
As you have thousands of copies of negatives and slides you want to make the Rotscout is really a (the?) perfect system. You can rather quickly scan the negatives with the base plates (I have several: 1 for framed slides (24x36), 1 for film strips 24x36 and 1 for 6x6 negatives/slides). 
If you buy the Rotscout for a few copies it is clearly overkill, but for many copies it is one of the best ways to go, I think. Not unimportant is that they have a perfect customer service. They are a small operation and if possible they will help you in having a system conform your wishes. 
hope this helps!

Donald
 

[Einst_Stein]

I use either Medium format digital camera or Leica APS-C. To me both have excellent quality, APS-C is much more convenient. 
Attached is my setup for APS-C. It contains：

1: a small （used) slide copy stand that can be found on eBay. 
2: a brand new acrylic pair photo frame that can be found from eBay, Amazon, etc. Get 8x10 or 8.5x11. 
     This is to keep the film/ slide flat, the thick acrylic makes the dirt on the outer surface ignorable. 
     Always keep the 8ner surface clean by never expose it to the dirt.

3: the light pad or light table. Also from eBay or Amazon. Make sure the light source is the uniform type  grid-less or dot-less. 

I cut the film into pieces with the length of each piece fits in the acrylic frame. Just like a proof page. This way I can copy the whole roll in one session. 

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[Karl Delandsheere]

15 hours ago, Donald M said:

I use the Rotscout system with the led film base. Not from Kaiser anymore, but Rotscout sent a brighter led light with neutral colour profile. This way you have considerably more light than with the Kaiser. With the permanent led light you can perfectly adopt the F value to the negative or slide at hand. With a flashlight based system this is a bit hit or miss I think. But I don’t have experience with that.
As you have thousands of copies of negatives and slides you want to make the Rotscout is really a (the?) perfect system. You can rather quickly scan the negatives with the base plates (I have several: 1 for framed slides (24x36), 1 for film strips 24x36 and 1 for 6x6 negatives/slides). 
If you buy the Rotscout for a few copies it is clearly overkill, but for many copies it is one of the best ways to go, I think. Not unimportant is that they have a perfect customer service. They are a small operation and if possible they will help you in having a system conform your wishes. 
hope this helps!

Donald
 

Well, I have something like 1.5 thousands negatives (mine and a big part of an archive project I inherited) on which I want to spend time and get accustomed. Mostly 24x36 and 6x4,5/6x6. But my goal, in a year or two is to open my photography-related workshop and one of the services would be high-grade "scans". So this looks like the solution for me to get working on the work and not on the gear itself (which I spend to much time at usually).

So yeah, your feedback helps a lot, thanks!

[Stuart Richardson]

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I follow this thread with interest, and I figured I would give a small update for those who are interested. In the early stages of the thread, the discussion came down to lenses. I stated that the 50mm APO Summicron SL worked great as a close focus lens for larger negatives. I stand by that. I also recommended the 120mm APO Macro Summarit S. I also stand behind that! Recently, however, I needed a 1:1 macro for a larger copy job, and I took a chance on the 105mm Sigma macro. I am glad I did. It is an excellent lens. I found little difference between it and the 120mm APO Macro Summarit, other than size and a different color balance. If you didn't come from the S system like I did and have the 120 hanging around, I can't see any reason anymore to recommend it for the SL (although it is still superb, so it works amazingly, but it is expensive, big and slow to focus compared to the Sigma). I have not had it too long, but the Sigma 105mm has no LOCA or fringing that I have been able to identify, and the utility of having 1 to 1 in a smaller, lighter, cheaper lens is quite high. I also found it to be extremely sharp in landscape work, even close to wide open. So I think it is an excellent medium telephoto for general use too. I am quite picky with lenses, but I found little to complain about. The only area where I would put the Leica significantly ahead is that the S lenses have mechanical manual focusing, which still feels better than electronic focusing. That said, the Sigma seemed to focus fine in manual for me. It does have a habit of hunting in AF in the macro range, but I think that is basically all AF macro lenses.

I am attaching a slide scan I made with it. I am also including a landscape shot I took at f4, with center and lower right crops. Unfortunately they don't look too sharp here because the forum software resizes them, but in this case, perhaps take my word for it!

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Edited March 17, 2023 by Stuart Richardson

[Donald M]

1 hour ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I follow this thread with interest, and I figured I would give a small update for those who are interested. In the early stages of the thread, the discussion came down to lenses. I stated that the 50mm APO Summicron SL worked great as a close focus lens for larger negatives. I stand by that. I also recommended the 120mm APO Macro Summarit S. I also stand behind that! Recently, however, I needed a 1:1 macro for a larger copy job, and I took a chance on the 105mm Sigma macro. I am glad I did. It is an excellent lens. I found little difference between it and the 120mm APO Macro Summarit, other than size and a different color balance. If you didn't come from the S system like I did and have the 120 hanging around, I can't see any reason anymore to recommend it for the SL (although it is still superb, so it works amazingly, but it is expensive, big and slow to focus compared to the Sigma). I have not had it too long, but the Sigma 105mm has no LOCA or fringing that I have been able to identify, and the utility of having 1 to 1 in a smaller, lighter, cheaper lens is quite high. I also found it to be extremely sharp in landscape work, even close to wide open. So I think it is an excellent medium telephoto for general use too. I am quite picky with lenses, but I found little to complain about. The only area where I would put the Leica significantly ahead is that the S lenses have mechanical manual focusing, which still feels better than electronic focusing. That said, the Sigma seemed to focus fine in manual for me. It does have a habit of hunting in AF in the macro range, but I think that is basically all AF macro lenses.

I am attaching a slide scan I made with it. I am also including a landscape shot I took at f4, with center and lower right crops. Unfortunately they don't look too sharp here because the forum software resizes them, but in this case, perhaps take my word for it!

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Looks perfectly sharp, even with the lower resolution. I use the Sigma macro as well. It is very sharp and perfectly suited for copying slides or negatives. The only nitpick I have that it zooms exactly to 1:1, so for the exact setting of sharpness of a slide of 24x36 (=1:1) the copy base should be a tiny bit smaller. I always check the sharpness manually but 9 out of 10 times the autofocus is perfect. The grain of the film is a perfect way to check sharpness…

 

[DW81]

I just ordered this https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/valoi-easy35-home-scanning-made-easy#/ Going to use my Sl2-S and M11.  The picture quality looks promising compared to V600/850 etc

[AZN]

Lots of reinventing the wheel going on here.

Just use a good quality 50-60mm macro lens and the Nikon ES-1 (or 2)

For a light-source, anything bright will do.  Bounce room or sun light off a white sheet of paper.  I even used a white-screen on an iPad for a while.  Now use a continus LED video lighting panel which I got cheap (< $50)

If you are spending 100s of dollars and constructing rigs which take up cubic metres of space, then you are doing it wrong 😃

Colour transparencies and B&W negatives are absurdly easy.  C41 colour negative film is (far) more challenging. Capture One still hasn't got the memo that there are thousands of people using their digital cameras to digitise their film collections…

[Photoworks]

32 minutes ago, AZN said:

Capture One still hasn't got the memo that there are thousands of people using their digital cameras to digitise their film collections…

phase one has a full reproduction system initially make for national archives.

https://digitization.phaseone.com/products/complete-solutions/film-digitization/

But if you want a free tool for mac, you can try the Analogue Toolbox for Capture One

https://www.facebook.com/groups/141662290513120

 

[Stuart Richardson]

18 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

phase one has a full reproduction system initially make for national archives.

https://digitization.phaseone.com/products/complete-solutions/film-digitization/

But if you want a free tool for mac, you can try the Analogue Toolbox for Capture One

https://www.facebook.com/groups/141662290513120

 

The last time I checked, Phase One wanted something like 6000 dollars for the software alone for the Cultural Heritage edition. It is of course tens or hundreds of thousands more for the copy stand, holders, light source, mounts, camera and lenses. That did not make any sense at all for my lab at least. It seems to only make sense for large museums with even larger budgets. Even the city museums here would never have the budget to buy a single license of the software, let alone the package. They are still using Flextight scanners, which while expensive, at least had perpetual software for free with the scanners.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Stuart Richardson

[Photoworks]

3 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

The last time I checked, Phase One wanted something like 6000 dollars for the software alone for the Cultural Heritage edition. That did not make any sense at all for my lab at least. It seems to only make sense for large museums with even larger budgets. Even the city museums here would never have the budget to buy a single license.

Digital Silver Lab has that in a van

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

https://digitalsilverimaging.com/scanning-retouching/

I think it is the US only.

They did a full archive of Elliott Erwitt and Steve McCurry during Covit

[Stuart Richardson]

There is just so much more money in photography and the arts in the US, particularly in NYC than there is here. This is a country with 375,000 people...spending 100k+ on equipment for a niche service is just a non-starter here. If you divide those 375000 into potential visitors to a given museum or potential customers for a lab, you end up in the low thousands, and it all gets very small very quickly. I doubt you find many labs outside of NYC, LA, Boston, London, Paris or Berlin who have the money to justify a setup like that. Certainly there are some, but not many. But anyway, didn't want to derail the thread.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Stuart Richardson

[AZN]

55 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

But if you want a free tool for mac, you can try the Analogue Toolbox for Capture One

https://www.facebook.com/groups/141662290513120

 

Thanks for that.  I know about that plug-in, but it is Farcebook access only, so to download it you first have to sign up to be followed around for the rest of your life by Meta.  No thanks.

At any rate, Capture One should have a generic C41 conversion profile built-in.  Ditto Lightroom.  Both companies add so many completely useless features every year that you would think someone, somewhere, at some time, would think it would be a handy feature for (hundreds of?) thousands of photographers digitising their film catalogue.

[Photoworks]

4 minutes ago, AZN said:

Thanks for that.  I know about that plug-in, but it is Farcebook access only, so to download it you first have to sign up to be followed around for the rest of your life by Meta.  No thanks.

At any rate, Capture One should have a generic C41 conversion profile built-in.  Ditto Lightroom.  Both companies add so many completely useless features every year that you would think someone, somewhere, at some time, would think it would be a handy feature for (hundreds of?) thousands of photographers digitising their film catalogue.

LOL, you are funny. Meta follows you everywhere anyway. It is like a disease that spreads with one pixel.

here is the plugin

Version 0.7.5

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sne3clrr1l44htu/ATB-v0.7.5.zip?dl=0

Changes

v0.7.5

• Support for Capture One 23

Mission Statement

• Helping to get to a good starting point when converting negatives with Capture One Pro.
• Automate what can be automated.
• Provide easy access to common tools/workflows often needing alongside the process.
• Use the power of Capture One transparently wherever possible. No hidden magic. Everyone is invited to discuss on what it does. Many ways to Rome. This is one.

System Requirements

• MacOS Mojave or later
• Capture One Pro 12.1 or higher
• Using C1 sessions

Installation

• Unzip and drag into Application folder.
• Ensure that C1 is started before the toolbox
• Select your C1 version via settings drop-down on bottom of the toolbox.
• MacOS security popup might ask you for confirming giving permissions to the app for controlling Capture One. Please confirm.
• Ensure that you read the "help" page of the toolbox.
• ** Especially the note about adjustment of Auto-Levels mode, threshold and clipping settings in Capture One settings. This is essential for proper operation! **

Features

• Conversion of Color Negatives
• Conversion of Black & White Negatives
• Auto-Whitebalance based on RGB color readout
• Tone Adjustments (Warming/Cooling)
• Shadow/Highlight Adjustments
• Gamma Adjustments
• Flip horizontal
• Lab scanner looks via 3D LUT (creates copy)

Instructions

• White-balance based on empty film border
• Crop without leaving any film border in the image
• Trigger the conversion
• On images with prominent scratches it might be required to temporarily "relax" the auto-levels thresholds in C1 settings.
• Walkthrough video available in announcements
• A note on saturation:
  
  The toolbox avoids anything that affects saturation during conversion as some of the lab looks will already affect saturation if used. However saturation is readily available within Capture One via the basic color editor tab (RGB).

Known Issues

• "Lab Look" isn't working when using C1 catalogs. Works with sessions though. See announcements for workaround.
• "Lab Look" does not work on images on external drives.
• Some users report that "Convert" action is unreliable on catalogs. For now it is recommended to only use the toolbox with C1 sessions.

[davidmknoble]

On 3/17/2023 at 7:45 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

I follow this thread with interest, and I figured I would give a small update for those who are interested. In the early stages of the thread, the discussion came down to lenses. I stated that the 50mm APO Summicron SL worked great as a close focus lens for larger negatives. I stand by that. I also recommended the 120mm APO Macro Summarit S. I also stand behind that! Recently, however, I needed a 1:1 macro for a larger copy job, and I took a chance on the 105mm Sigma macro. I am glad I did. It is an excellent lens. I found little difference between it and the 120mm APO Macro Summarit, other than size and a different color balance. If you didn't come from the S system like I did and have the 120 hanging around, I can't see any reason anymore to recommend it for the SL (although it is still superb, so it works amazingly, but it is expensive, big and slow to focus compared to the Sigma). I have not had it too long, but the Sigma 105mm has no LOCA or fringing that I have been able to identify, and the utility of having 1 to 1 in a smaller, lighter, cheaper lens is quite high. I also found it to be extremely sharp in landscape work, even close to wide open. So I think it is an excellent medium telephoto for general use too. I am quite picky with lenses, but I found little to complain about. The only area where I would put the Leica significantly ahead is that the S lenses have mechanical manual focusing, which still feels better than electronic focusing. That said, the Sigma seemed to focus fine in manual for me. It does have a habit of hunting in AF in the macro range, but I think that is basically all AF macro lenses.

@Stuart Richardson, I have fiddled around with several lens / cameras to dupe 120mm negatives and height seems to be my biggest issue.  How close have you been able to get the S-120 lens to focus?  I have never really done macro work and just need to read more.  For 35mm I have had success with the M10M or M11 with the M APO 50 and the M Macro adapter, but 120 I feel like I loose too much resolution when I back up enough to get it full frame.  Seems like the S3 with the 120mm is a better solution for larger negs.

[davidmknoble]

On 3/21/2023 at 7:09 PM, Photoworks said:

phase one has a full reproduction system initially make for national archives.

https://digitization.phaseone.com/products/complete-solutions/film-digitization/

But if you want a free tool for mac, you can try the Analogue Toolbox for Capture One

https://www.facebook.com/groups/141662290513120

 

I have used the Analogue Toolbox with Capture One 22 and 23 using monochrom shots of black and white negatives.  For my system, it seems to do a great job of getting the contrast using the RGB histogram, but I cannot for the life of me get it to reverse the image and get the contrast.  I’ve tried checking the box for Black and White and not checking it.  Don’t know if I have something in security for the Mac OS X set wrong and I’ve watched the video, but cannot get it to work well.

So, I setup a style that reverses the image and sets a baseline crop so that I have less to do, but it does take time.  

I really need to take a minute and submit a request for capture one to just have a simple checkbox to reverse the image and then let all the sliders work as intended.  The issue in C1 is that reversing it also reverses the HDR sliders.  Highlight lowering becomes Black increasing, etc.   A little brain twisting to be sure.  Levels seems to work ok though.

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[Stuart Richardson]

57 minutes ago, davidmknoble said:

@Stuart Richardson, I have fiddled around with several lens / cameras to dupe 120mm negatives and height seems to be my biggest issue.  How close have you been able to get the S-120 lens to focus?  I have never really done macro work and just need to read more.  For 35mm I have had success with the M10M or M11 with the M APO 50 and the M Macro adapter, but 120 I feel like I loose too much resolution when I back up enough to get it full frame.  Seems like the S3 with the 120mm is a better solution for larger negs.

With the SL2 and the 120mm lens, you can more or less fill the frame with a 6x7 negative (you still have to crop the edges since it is a 4x5 ratio vs 2x3). With the S3, you would not be able to get as close...1 to 2 is the same on both cameras, but since the SL2 sensor is smaller, it fills the frame, whereas on the S3 it would be the same size, but not fill up as much of the frame. This, combined with the multishot and the lack of a mirror means that the SL2 is better for camera scanning. I tried both when I had the S3...the SL2 was a lot better. The Sigma would be a better choice for anything smaller than 6x7 since it can focus to 1 to 1. In general, the S cameras are not great for macro work in my experience, as the shutter has so much vibration. Even with the mirror pre-release, the vibration coming from the shutter itself is high enough to diminish sharpness in all but the most well-damped setups. I found it was best to keep the shutter speed as high as possible...over 1/250th to cut down on this effect. Since the SL2 can use the electric shutter, it avoids this problem entirely. If you do want to use an S camera, I found that the best results came from using a wooden tripod like a Ries with a big platform head screwed directly into the camera base...not an arca plate. Arca plates are convenient, but since they are fairly small their contact points allow for more flexion. If you have a large flat surface and mate it to the large flat surface of the bottom of the camera, that greatly reduces any potential for flexion, and it better dampens the vibration. This worked better for me than even my heavy studio stand. The wood is also a lot better at absorbing vibrations than any aluminum or carbon fiber tripod I have used. Far less convenient, unfortunately...

 

[davidmknoble]

Thanks @Stuart Richardson.  I use a negative supply setup with a great stand - it has a strong screw to slowly move up and down the entire camera setup, so vibration is less an issue, but it makes sense that the SL2 is lighter and slimmer.  I'll have to try that (although I have an SL2-S, less resolution).  I am also considering the M11 with the 90 f/4 macro and the macro adapter.  I think I can get as close as 0.42m and hopefully pull far enough away to get the 6x6 inside the 35mm frame.  With the M11 I worry less about the cropping because of resolution.  My other thought is to try the Sl2-S with the multi shot if I can get the focus and framing nailed...  Thanks again!