ericperlberg Posted August 20, 2007 Share #21 Posted August 20, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yep, 1600 is max, there seems to be an option to push to 3200.Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III, previewed: Digital Photography Review Edit: • Remote live view using EOS Utility 2.0 (via USB or WiFi/Ethernet using WFT) - does that mean you can have your client sit at a monitor and bitch about the shots the second they're taken? Well, that's something then I was surprised that the max is 1600 as the range on the 1dIII is to 3200 (with an optional 6400!!). I'm assuming the extra pixels make it harder to squeeze that extra stop out of the chip. There seem to be 2 live modes, one in which you view the live mode via the rear LCD a la a point and shoot. The second allows you to attach to a computer and work the camera from the computer screen making the computer screen the live view. Interesting implications from that scenario as you point out. How about directing a shoot from another country? To me the interesting puzzle is the comment that you can steal an extra stop of detail in the light values if you want but that its a custom function which I assume implies that there are trade-offs involved which may be undesirable. I'm waiting to hear about the image quality produced and hoping that there's a significantly better dynamic range. The specs are not that much better than my 1dsII to make me jump up and place an order. 22 v 16 mpx is not enough difference in most cases to spend an extra many thousand zatchkas. I can clean my sensor so that feature is nice but not essential, the 3" LCD is also nice but won't make me a better photographer and live view may be nice for those who use the cam on a tripod but not that great for those who don't. Strangely they make a point of saying that they're using lighter materials but the camera weight doesn't strike me as particularly lighter than my 1dsII at 1200gms without battery. I haven't figured out where the weight savings went to unless they've added stuff which would have made the camera even heavier yet without the weight reductions. Did I mention I love my M8? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 Hi ericperlberg, Take a look here Leica lenses on this Canon 21 Mpixel 1Ds MkIII should be superb. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Iron Flatline Posted August 20, 2007 Share #22 Posted August 20, 2007 As an ecstatic M8 user, it's fun to watch the SLR race as a distinterested observer. No question Canon is innovative and willing to push the envelope in many directions (and it's to be expected that occasionally the envelope will push back, as in the case of 1DIII focusing). I can afford to wait for the Nikon (1x crop, 1.1x crop?) or Leica shoes to drop before jumping in, so I will. Me too, but what a daydream that makes - just imagine, several well-funded companies competing to push new technologies to market at highly competitive prices... in Rangefinders??! Wouldn't THAT be nice? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted August 21, 2007 Share #23 Posted August 21, 2007 I suspect that all that would happen would be that some other company would win, pushing the high-quality cameras out of the market and back into a niche, Leica being the net loser. I prefer that our quality camera does not get out-competed by some lesser player, to be honest. It means high expense, but at least the quality camera is available this way, for those who want it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidigital Posted August 21, 2007 Share #24 Posted August 21, 2007 It just makes me pause, sigh and think about how good those images from my DMR looked. Don't get me wrong, I love my M8, but, there was something about the colors and the look of DMR files that I find that I miss with the M8. Kurt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billh Posted August 21, 2007 Author Share #25 Posted August 21, 2007 Bill - I hope you're well. Thanks for posting this. Looks interesting, and the specs are impressive. However, as you may suspect, I remain thoroughly unmoved by any Canon offerings with respect to R lenses. The only viable solution for me with respect to my R lenses are real Leica R bodies (DMR, R10 when it comes out, but honestly my DMR fits the bill as far as I'm concerned). Industry watchers have indeed been expecting this kind of announcement from Canon and perhaps soon Nikon, I am convinced that Leica has positioned future R developments to take this into account. Cheers, Hi Conrad, I am fine thanks. How are things going for you over there? Indeed I do know your heart is firmly in the Leica R camp. It will really become interesting if they offer a new digital SLR. I really love the Ms, and use the Canons when I need longer lenses and AF. When I use the 180 Summicron on the 1Ds2, people go nuts over the results. Unfortunately the last time this happened it was for use inside a CD booklet and the sound engineer is, like you, a Leica R user and fan, and instantly attributed the photo quality to the lens (in front of everyone), not the photographer. Oh well, I can never impress the young girls either. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo73 Posted August 22, 2007 Share #26 Posted August 22, 2007 Pusuit of ever higher pixel count does not guarantee better images. The old MK II imaaages were softer than that DMR straight out of the camera. Only when you sharpened the the heavily aliased filter image from the MK II did it finally out resolve the DMR and not by a wide factor either. Canon needs shape up its wide angle lenses because they are soft in the corners. This has been known for years. Uping the resolution will only aggrevate the problem. To Cannon's credit they did introduce an improved 14mm rectalinear lens. Testing will only tell how mauch of an improvement was made. From a source I will not divulge, Leica unofficially is developing an 18 megapixel full frame R10 about the size of a Canon 5D. Autofocus is a possibilitty. These specifications are subject to change. If so, the R 10 would be more than a match for the Canon 1DS MkIII in image sharpness.I hope this will stop uninformed speculation and fretting about what Leica will do next. Start saving your money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgcd Posted August 22, 2007 Share #27 Posted August 22, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi Conrad, I am fine thanks. How are things going for you over there? Indeed I do know your heart is firmly in the Leica R camp. It will really become interesting if they offer a new digital SLR. I really love the Ms, and use the Canons when I need longer lenses and AF. When I use the 180 Summicron on the 1Ds2, people go nuts over the results. Unfortunately the last time this happened it was for use inside a CD booklet and the sound engineer is, like you, a Leica R user and fan, and instantly attributed the photo quality to the lens (in front of everyone), not the photographer. Oh well, I can never impress the young girls either. Bill Hi Bill, Nice to hear from you. Things are ok on my side thanks. I am on this side for a little while longer. Eager to return to Medan though. Glad to hear you're still using "our" favorite lens but the sound engineer's reaction is just wrong on so many levels! Come over to Indonesia and you can show the young women the trick about carrying this lens, I admit I haven't quite mastered it yet... Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgcd Posted August 22, 2007 Share #28 Posted August 22, 2007 It just makes me pause, sigh and think about how good those images from my DMR looked. Don't get me wrong, I love my M8, but, there was something about the colors and the look of DMR files that I find that I miss with the M8. Kurt Bingo! At first, I thought it was me and the way I processed the M8 files in C1, but I do it the same way I process my DMR files, straight out of the box. I think it goes beyond the fact that the DMR is native at 16 bit A/D and the M8 is only 8 bit A/D. The colours from the DMR are so much more vibrant to me. Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
telyt Posted August 22, 2007 Share #29 Posted August 22, 2007 The new Canon still uses 14-bit pixels. I can hardly wait to see what Leica does with the R10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reven Posted August 22, 2007 Share #30 Posted August 22, 2007 Yep R10, 2010 ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
telyt Posted August 22, 2007 Share #31 Posted August 22, 2007 Yep R10, 2010 ;-) 2008. That's next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted August 22, 2007 Share #32 Posted August 22, 2007 I was surprised that the max is 1600 as the range on the 1dIII is to 3200 (with an optional 6400!!). I'm assuming the extra pixels make it harder to squeeze that extra stop out of the chip. That’s right – smaller pixels imply more noise. The normal ISO range of the EOS-1Ds Mark III is 100 to 1600 and can be extended to ISO 3200; with the EOS-1D Mark III it is 100 to 3200, extendable to ISO 6400. There seem to be 2 live modes, one in which you view the live mode via the rear LCD a la a point and shoot. The second allows you to attach to a computer and work the camera from the computer screen making the computer screen the live view. Interesting implications from that scenario as you point out. How about directing a shoot from another country? Entirely possible, as there is http support – a web browser should be all you need. But that’s nothing new, as the EOS-1D Mark III offers the same. To me the interesting puzzle is the comment that you can steal an extra stop of detail in the light values if you want but that its a custom function which I assume implies that there are trade-offs involved which may be undesirable. All the newer models (both Mark III models and the 40D) share that feature. It is limited to ISO 200 and beyond, and apparently you won’t gain anything compared to the dynamic range you would get at ISO 100 – it is just that you don’t lose that much when you chose a higher ISO setting. But even then it is quite useful. I'm waiting to hear about the image quality produced and hoping that there's a significantly better dynamic range.The smaller pixel size would suggest that the dynamic range should be worse, but improvements in noise reductions might counteract this effect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted August 22, 2007 Share #33 Posted August 22, 2007 The new Canon still uses 14-bit pixels. I can hardly wait to see what Leica does with the R10. Both the M8 and the DMR use the Blackfin BF561 dual core DSP as their main processor, so theoretically, 16-bit processing with the M8 should be easy as pie too ... it's only Leica's decision. Even if they want to reuse the same DSP several years old, 16-bit processing shall be no problem at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumshoecamus Posted August 22, 2007 Share #34 Posted August 22, 2007 Bingo! At first, I thought it was me and the way I processed the M8 files in C1, but I do it the same way I process my DMR files, straight out of the box. I think it goes beyond the fact that the DMR is native at 16 bit A/D and the M8 is only 8 bit A/D. The colours from the DMR are so much more vibrant to me. Cheers, I think this has a lot to do with the imacon/flexcolor workflow. I haven't used a DMR but I do use an imacon back with flexcolor, and while lots about the software is annoying, there is no doubting the superiority of its colour. C1 or most anything else I have tried (raw developer, ACR, aperture, etc) all produce less vibrant results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted August 22, 2007 Share #35 Posted August 22, 2007 As to the DMR vs M8 colour, I shoot both all the time, and the difference really is in the profiles used (we're talking RAW here). The FlexColour profiles for the DMR are the best, IMO, and I agree 100% about FlexColor and processing DMR files. But you can use the ICC profile from FlexColor in C1 And there you go. I also find the profiles for a couple of the Phase backs are actually better on skin tones than the DMR C1 profile (use the skin tone variants that are in C1 Pro and DMR is even better than usual). The M8 still needs to have its profile tweaked, whether you do it in C1 or in ACR through the new color adjustments. I find reds, in particular, need a little push, and the greens do as well. But once that's done, the colour and look from both M8 and DMR is remarkably similar, actually--far closer than my 5d and the M8 or 5d and DMR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgcd Posted August 22, 2007 Share #36 Posted August 22, 2007 I get remarkably vibrant colours with C1 and my DMR, so that is not an issue at all. That's with the C1 R8 profile. What's interesting to me is that straight out of the box I do not get the same vibrancy with the M8. BTW, I don't really care for the Flexcolor DMR profile, there seems to have been a slight greenish cast when used with previous versions of C1 in my experience. Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tummydoc Posted August 22, 2007 Share #37 Posted August 22, 2007 Gosh, also sets the benchmark for the R10 (and the D3X). The D3X maybe, but R10? IIRC both the 5D (12mp, FF) and 1DS-II (17mp, FF) were on hand before Leica stepped up with their 10mp DMR, and certainly before the...10mp M8, so obviously Leica has a clear understanding, and also gives their customers credit for understanding that mp isn't the most important specification for a digital camera. That would be the red dot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted August 22, 2007 Share #38 Posted August 22, 2007 The new Canon still uses 14-bit pixels. Still? The EOS-1Ds Mark II is only the second (or third) Canon DSLR to sample, process, and store 14 bit raw data; prior to the introduction of the EOS-1D Mark III earlier this year, all the EOS models were restricted to 12 bits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfarkas Posted August 23, 2007 Share #39 Posted August 23, 2007 Jamie, you are right on regarding profiles. I made my own profile for the DMR for use in C1 with the i1 XT. MUCH better. The color accuracy and vibrancy are so much better that I want to go back to old shots and reprocess them all. And I love that C1 remembers that I want to use my M8 profile with M8 shots and my DMR profile with DMR shots. I don't have to manually select profiles anymore, and I'm really enjoying the default rendering now. I've posted my M8 profiles for forum members a while back, but I haven't put up my new DMR profile. If anyone wants it, let me know. I can email it to you or put it up somewhere for download. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsh Posted August 23, 2007 Share #40 Posted August 23, 2007 Carsten: I heard the same info on Nikon. 1.1 crop would be the same as a Mounted 35mm slide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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