Anyone developing/developed HP5+ in R09

[gbealnz]

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I've been a Rodinal user for too long, and with it becoming impossible to find have been using R09, a "modern substitute".

I've noticed the last couple of rolls of HP5+ through R09 have been thin, too thin for me. Coincidentally, both recent rolls were panoramic, one with the X-Pan, the other a roll of 35mm through an A-24 magazine. The A-24 roll I processed yesterday, and was not amused to see it thin (again!!!!)

So, I am on a bender to either find a "better" developer, or find out whether R09 actually works well, and my old bottle of R09 needs to be retired. Being an old Rodinal user means it can be from the last world war and still be perfect, maybe R09 has a shorter life?

Yesterday's roll was 8 mins at 20C, 1:25. I usually like 1:50 for economics mainly, but found 1:50 data scarce, so opted for 1:25.

Anyone thoughts, apart from "stop being an old tightwad, chuck the old bottle".

It even has me gearing up to brew some caffenol, watch this space.

Gary

[Tmx]

Hi Gary,

Unfortunately there is currently only one product on the market which really based on the original receipt of Agfa. That’s Rodinal made and distributed by Fotoimpex. All other brands are only similar but not identical. There were a long discussion on German APHOG analog Forum regarding storability of the “clones” and there was a clear statement of the CEO of Fotoimpex in this regard. Other users reported about similar issues. 

Best regards 

Jakob

 

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[stray cat]

Gary, stop being an old tightwad and chuck the old bottle. Jakob's excellent comment above would suggest looking at importing a bottle of the Fotoimpex product into the land of the long white cloud if that is possible. Otherwise, Caffenol is a great alternative as well as being fun and a little bit adventurous. Hell, what have you got to lose, apart from thin negatives? Give them their coffee fix and put a little meat on 'em!

Edited September 15, 2020 by stray cat

[250swb]

Adox Rodinal can be bought easily enough in Europe and the USA so maybe start there. If you can't find it as Rodinal search for Adox Adonal which is exactly the same product with a name change to conform to copyright in some countries.

[Pyrogallol]

I have been using Rodinal for some years and found that it lasts right to the bottom of the bottle.

For something different I can recommend Moersch Tanol.

[Tmx]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb 250swb:

Adox Rodinal can be bought easily enough in Europe and the USA so maybe start there. If you can't find it as Rodinal search for Adox Adonal which is exactly the same product with a name change to conform to copyright in some countries.

That’s correct. In France for instance only Adonal can be distributed. Both Adox products are identically equal to each other

[gbealnz]

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Thank you all, and point taken with the tightwad side (can always rely on a close neighbour for forthright and honesty). I secured a new unopened bottle of Rodinal, but am also (don't laugh) gearing up to try Caffenol as Phil suggested. I actually own two flash Italian coffee machines, so it make sense, although buying instant coffee seems sacrilege to me. Just trying to source some Potassium Bromide and I am sort of set. I'll run a short test roll through the SL (or the old 1a) and report back. It is a work in progress.

Gary

[gbealnz]

7 hours ago, 250swb said:

Adox Rodinal can be bought easily enough in Europe and the USA so maybe start there. If you can't find it as Rodinal search for Adox Adonal which is exactly the same product with a name change to conform to copyright in some countries.

Appreciated Steve, but most Maco products for example (as well as the US suppliers) are not able to be shipped if in liquid form.I managed to acquire some R09 from Oz somehow. The Rodinal I got is an old bottle, but unopened.

Coffee first, worth a try.

Gary

[Steve Ricoh]

On 9/15/2020 at 8:32 PM, gbealnz said:

Appreciated Steve, but most Maco products for example (as well as the US suppliers) are not able to be shipped if in liquid form.I managed to acquire some R09 from Oz somehow. The Rodinal I got is an old bottle, but unopened.

Coffee first, worth a try.

Gary

Apparently red beetroot works too. 😊

250 ml Red Beetroot juice
2 tsp of washing soda
1 tsp vitamin C

[Pyrogallol]

Coffee and washing soda. About six heaped table spoonfulls of each made upto 300ml for a 35mm film. Give about half an hour development. Take about three stops off the film speed ie over-expose a few stops more than normal. I have saved some old instant coffee to use with another film. Lots on the internet about it.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Pyrogallol

[gbealnz]

Cheers guys,

I'm going to start with the coffee/washing soda/vitamin c to start with, and add a splash of KBr because it's HP5+ rather than 100 speed film. If it works, swell, if not then it has ruffled a few cobwebs within the brain. Good for us oldies to have to think a bit.

Gary

[Steve Ricoh]

1 hour ago, gbealnz said:

Cheers guys,

I'm going to start with the coffee/washing soda/vitamin c to start with, and add a splash of KBr because it's HP5+ rather than 100 speed film. If it works, swell, if not then it has ruffled a few cobwebs within the brain. Good for us oldies to have to think a bit.

Gary

Look forward to the results Gary.

[fotomas]

Hmmm — I received full box speed with Caffenol C-M, at least with ADOX Silvermax. Haven't tried HP5 yet.
But I  expose to the shadows in general.

[gbealnz]

An update. Nothing worse than a poster who asks, gets replies, then swans off into the sunset without reporting back.

Frugality was the culprit, that and a bit of ignorance with the way chemicals can settle out. I tipped the dregs out of the R09 bottle, mainly so I wouldn't be tempted to try it just the one more time. It rattled as I did, thee were crystals in the bottom, so that is part of the cause I now know.

Anyway, as I eluded in a post above I embarked on the Caffenol discovery. I of all people scoffed to myself every time I saw results of films processed in coffee, I mean come on. I envisaged taking my Patterson tank to the local cafe, and processing while I partook in my favourite espresso. Yeah right.

I gave it a go, with a short test roll of HP5+ (as this was the film that seemed be giving me the most grief). Sourced the chemicals, and a suitable set of scales, and mixed up a brew yesterday. Film was about 24 shots, and I slipped it into my old Model 1a and used about half of the roll. Then, in the dark, took it out and fed it into a new (to me) Olympus OM1 which fell into my lap recently. Shot the remaining "half" with the OM1 and 35-70 zoom.

Processed it according to the suggested 15 mins, albeit at about 22º instead of the suggested 20º. Tipped the coffee brew out, ran some water through, then a stop, then fix. As I usually do, after about 2-3 mins in the fix popped the lid to see if there is anything on the roll, and also if it has cleared. Assuming all is good it stays in the fix for another 2-3 mins then wash.

Of course, the scoffing pessimist said, "there will be nothing on it". And boy was I flabbergasted when there was. Truly knocked me over. (No's 33 - 40 are with the 1a, No's 0 - 11 are with the OM1)

Fixed, washed, hung it. Scan through the film sleeve attached. From "thin" to "thick" in one easy lesson. They are a tad thick to me, so maybe next roll I will ensure temp is correct. And, it appears my poor old Model 1a is "soft", big time. Not sure what to do with it, it's too good to just sit unused.

Next roll will tell me if this process was a fluke, and I have a new to me Contax G and lenses to try it. Thanks to all that helped.

Gary

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[stray cat]

A great result Gary - congratulations! It's quite a feeling of elation, seeing the result and knowing that you mixed up the brew yourself. They all look pretty good to me - but sticking to the correct time/temperature routine will help them even more. Great to hear that you have acquired a Contax G and lenses too! I think we discussed the many pros and few cons of the system a while back. I no longer have mine - no reflection on the quality or usability of the system, I just didn't bond with it as I have with other systems. Best of luck with oit and really looking forward to seeing the results!

Oh, and as for the Model 1a, I've just sent my 25mm and 50mm Summicrons, as well as 135mm Elmar, to Youxin Ye for a good clean (to much dust!). He is fantastic with Leicas - if you decide to get the old 1a serviced, I recommend him very highly. Best regards, Phil

[gbealnz]

Cheers Phil.

Yes to the sticking to time/temp, normally pretty regimental about it, but........

As an aside I glanced at the Massive Dev times for Caffenol C-H, and saw that they only list HP5+ at ISO1600, and the dev time is 17 or 18 mins from memory. Maybe at 400 like I used it is too long? Dunno, more trialing.

Yes, I know Youxin well, might ask him. He did some work on an M3 I had a while back, as it left the US, great guy. I fear it needs a replacement Elmar.

Gary

[Steve Ricoh]

Looking at the scans, Gary, there’s plenty of contrast. I suppose it’s something you like, or not, but I like the shoot and whitewash personally. I understand the wow factor, I mean developing film in a coffee brew sounds like black magic, doesn’t it!

BTW, what’s the benefit of using caffenol over a more traditional method?

[gbealnz]

Fair bit of "soot and whitewash" there Steve, mind you scanning can accentuate or dilute that, so take this scientific study with the grain of proverbial. My first thought though was "hmmm, these would be a tad thick to print". I will try a wet print or two though, just for fun.

Benefit? Possibly none. Cost, perhaps? Environmentally friendly? Part of the lure of film as opposed digital though is the fun factor, so weighing out the ingredients, mixing them up, and processing, well as you put it, "black magic". I'm looking forward to the grand-daughters coming to stay soon, and shooting a roll with them, then making the concoction up.

Gary

 

[Chuck Albertson]

On 9/15/2020 at 12:32 PM, gbealnz said:

The Rodinal I got is an old bottle, but unopened.

You should be fine with that. I'm using a bottle of Rodinal (from the last of the Agfa stock) that was first opened in 2012, and it's working well - the color hasn't even changed from pale wheat. And I have another bottle from that stock still in the wings.

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[Steve Ricoh]

What about Beerol, Gary? 
https://www.caffenol.org/2015/04/22/beerol/

Personally I’d pour it down the drain and not drink it after development.