Sensor Corrosion Analysis and Fix [Merged]

[Oreki]

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13 hours ago, Casey Jefferson said:

You can resize it to 2048 pixels, and 60%~70% quality. I've got a friend sent them his M9 earlier this year and it came back in great shape.

Got it, I'll try to resize the images. I watched the entire replacement process and they were quite professional.

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[dan_82]

On 7/2/2024 at 3:42 PM, Oreki said:

I have an update, I went to one of the store and they charge me 3000RMB(about 450USD) for the filter replacement, The filters they claim are from Japan. The overall replacement only takes about 2 hrs to finish, and I do some simple tests before and after the repair. But due to the 2.44MB limit of this site, I don't know how to share these files. can someone tell me how to aviod this 2.44MB single file limit.

That is impressive. Just out of curiosity, do you know what exact type of glue they used to attached the filter to the the sensor stack ?  Any idea about quality of the filters available from AliExpress ( tangsinuo) ? 

Appreciate all the answers. 

[Oreki]

On 7/20/2024 at 4:09 AM, dan_82 said:

That is impressive. Just out of curiosity, do you know what exact type of glue they used to attached the filter to the the sensor stack ?  Any idea about quality of the filters available from AliExpress ( tangsinuo) ? 

Appreciate all the answers. 

If I remember it correctly, they used a very small amount of UV glue for the positioning of the filter, and the glue used for sealing the filter appears to be a Germany product, but I can't remember the exact brand of it.

[philipoz]

Does someone know if the purple fringe issue is due to the corrosion on the filter? Or is it the sensor itself?

[BLeventhal]

I'd like to ask a question to the collective wisdom of this thread.

I recently acquired a Steel Gray M9 for a very low price. The body is in "9/10" condition with minor wear that includes a few marks on the top plate that adds a bit of character if nothing else. The shutter count is less than 3500, and the sensor is 97% clean with only 6 or 7 spots of corrosion that are visible at f5.6. When stopping down to f/11 and f/16, I do not see any additional corrosion spots. The camera was built in 2010 (according to the serial number) and has the ID5 sensor. I paid $1300 US to a well-established used photo dealer (UsedPhotoPro.com) for the M9 with a voigtlander 35mm Color-Skopar, 2 batteries, and charger. Like I said, I got a very good deal. Because the sensor was original, I accepted it in "As Is" condition with no warranty. I've been using it in Iceland for street photography this week and have been happy with what I am seeing (see attached).

My question... Do I send it in to Kolari for corrosion-free glass replacement, or do I just shoot it until it dies? According to Kolari's website, it has a sensor that can be modified, but in some cases, the "glue" used on the original glass can lead to a permanently damaged sensor. If the sensor is damaged in repair, I'd have to pay a whopping $2500 for a new sensor instead of the $1000 for the glass replacement service. My intention is to keep this body and use it as my "Street / City" camera, as I use Nikons for my Nature Photography business,  My other option is to do nothing, buy a good 50mm lens with the $1300 or so that I would have spent on sensor glass, shipping, and a thorough clean.

Thanks and regards,

Bruce

 

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[pedaes]

1 hour ago, BLeventhal said:

and have been happy with what I am seeing (see attached).

I think you have answered your own question. Why risk it?

[Bart D]

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I'd go for the service while it is still available 🤔

[3D-Kraft.com]

At first, congratulations for the acquisition of an outstanding camera.

In my opionion, the M9 is worth that replacement, as long, as it is offered. As the corrosion will not stop at that, what you already see, I would have a much better feeling with the  ID15/ID16 sensor.

[pedaes]

1 hour ago, Bart D said:

I'd go for the service while it is still available 🤔

 

27 minutes ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

  ID15/ID16 sensor.

The OP is not talking about a Leica service and what's on offer does not involve a ID15/16 sensor. It is an attempt to replace the cover glass (which is the part that corrodes) on the existing/original sensor.

[BLeventhal]

I am leaning towards doing the glass replacement now, because the company that does this has found that the older sensor can become damaged if the corrosion is excessive. Kolari has two different glass types, both are Scotte glass, one of which has a guaranteed corrosion-resistance. 

The ID15/16 that Leica used were purchased by Kolari, and I can get a complete sensor stack replacement, but this is very expensive ($2500 vs $1200). Were I need a full sensor, I'd pass, as one can find M240's for that price. For me, it's about having a digital rangefinder for when I want to have fun with that type of photography. Were street and city my preferred genre, I'd have kept the M10 that I once owned.

cheers,

bruce

Edited November 25, 2024 by BLeventhal

[Bart D]

18 hours ago, pedaes said:

 

The OP is not talking about a Leica service and what's on offer does not involve a ID15/16 sensor. It is an attempt to replace the cover glass (which is the part that corrodes) on the existing/original sensor.

I got that.

I was obviously referring to the service offered by Kolari @BLeventhal mentioned.

[3D-Kraft.com]

Am 25.11.2024 um 22:29 schrieb pedaes:

 

The OP is not talking about a Leica service and what's on offer does not involve a ID15/16 sensor. It is an attempt to replace the cover glass (which is the part that corrodes) on the existing/original sensor.

Kolari also offers replacement with ID15/ID16 sensor. They still have some on stock.

[IkarusJohn]

On 11/26/2024 at 11:54 AM, BLeventhal said:

I am leaning towards doing the glass replacement now, because the company that does this has found that the older sensor can become damaged if the corrosion is excessive. Kolari has two different glass types, both are Scotte glass, one of which has a guaranteed corrosion-resistance. 

The ID15/16 that Leica used were purchased by Kolari, and I can get a complete sensor stack replacement, but this is very expensive ($2500 vs $1200). Were I need a full sensor, I'd pass, as one can find M240's for that price. For me, it's about having a digital rangefinder for when I want to have fun with that type of photography. Were street and city my preferred genre, I'd have kept the M10 that I once owned.

cheers,

bruce

Were it me, I'd go for the new sensor replacement.

[pedaes]

10 hours ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

They still have some on stock.

Helpful to know, but OP said not going for replacement on cost grounds.

[jankap]

Am 25.11.2024 um 08:59 schrieb BLeventhal:

I'd like to ask a question to the collective wisdom of this thread.

Not wisdom, but what I would do.

Exercise to take a picture of the sensor of what the situation is now. And repeat that periodically. Decide, if it is getting too much.

Edited December 2, 2024 by jankap

[BLeventhal]

Just sending out an update here...

As I indicated, I brought the M9 to Iceland and used it during my two days of wandering Reykjavik. After my time in the city, it stayed in the bag, as I have other cameras that are better suited to the type of landscape photography I was doing. In addition, the limitation of a 35mm lens would not have benefited me at most locations. 

Reflecting on the experience and images, I found that the M9 was really great in the city and I want to keep using it for that type of photography. Recognizing the value of this camera, I sent it off to Kolarivision to have the sensor glass replacement and thorough clean done. Kolari will assess if they can do a damage-free removal the corroded glass from my ID4 sensor. If they can do this, then I will have a corrosion-free sensor on a camera that could last another 5 to 10 years. If they cannot remove the glass, I will ask them to send the camera back and I will use the camera as is until I can no longer do so.

Thanks for the thoughts you all have shared.

bruce

[BLeventhal]

Attached are a few shots from the M9 I've been describing...

cheers,

bruce

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[3D-Kraft.com]

Thank you, please keep us updated on progress.

If they only realize after removing the glass that the sensor has already been damaged, I would still consider paying the $2500 for a complete replacement. The only alternative then is a total loss.

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[BLeventhal]

5 hours ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

Thank you, please keep us updated on progress.

If they only realize after removing the glass that the sensor has already been damaged, I would still consider paying the $2500 for a complete replacement. The only alternative then is a total loss.

Actually, they begin with an inspection. They use a scope to examine the glue under the sensor glass and see if it has leaked into the circuit board connection on the edges of the sensor. Evidently, the original glass was attached with some kind of "acid gel glue" that can permanently damage the sensor. The longer the corrosion occurs, the more likely that this issue happens as well. It is for this reason that I opted to send the camera in now. If they believe they will damage the sensor during the repair, they will probably offer me 4 options... 1> Send the Camera back with a refund and I can use it until it is no longer usable : 2> Replace the entire sensor... @ a price of $2500 (at which point I think I'm not sure that the value : cost ratio makes sense)... 3> Offer me a "trade or purchase" price, for which I could put to one of their already repaired camera... or 4> Buy it from me at a super-low price so they can change out the sensor and sell it. 

I'll be sending the camera in this week and will know if it is repairable some time next week... I hope.

bruce

[petard]

On 10/24/2020 at 8:13 PM, Jadon Rosado said:

The glass I use is BG40 at 1mm, the difference is the closest you can get without disturbing the micro lenses.

I'm trying to source replacement glass for my M9 and there are various glasses available. There is one eBay seller offering BG40 at 0.9mm and various sellers on Aliexpress offering an unknown coated glass at 0.9mm as well. The latter seems to be Tangsinuo glass similar to BG39/BG40. From what I gathered Tangsinuo seems to be decent quality compared to the Schott.

Now what I'm confused about is the thickness. The thickness itself changes the spectral properties a little but more importantly my understanding is that if you put 0.9 or 1mm it can lead to focus issues.

I haven't come across a seller that offers 0.8mm, it needs to be custom ordered. So will using 0.9mm lead to issues if the sensor isn't adjusted?

Edited December 17, 2024 by petard