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Sensor Corrosion Analysis and Fix [Merged]


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3 hours ago, Ian Tan said:

Thanks for your response. I actually haven’t bought it yet, it’s only $450, I’m not sure I should take the risk. What are your thoughts? Probably not right 

I would only buy it, if there were upsides on the value. More specifically, if you were to

1) sell it online (as-is) for parts, would you be able to make a profit ?   

2) contact leica and see if there are “deals”, where you can provide a M9 and upgrade to a M10 etc (Leica’s “valuation” of the damaged M9 may be worth alot more)

however in both options, it’s risky and obviously you won’t get a M9… well not directly.. 

Just my thoughts. 

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An M9 with corrosion is not worth repairing. Especially if you don't know what the result will be. As already written, I had mine repaired at dllewellyn ($1500.-). Conclusion: I was really not satisfied with it. But he is not interested in that. With the argument that I was a delicate customer, it was off the table for him. Nothing could be done, because the $1500 had to be paid in advance.

So, keep your hands off such repair attempts and rather buy another digital Leica. Maybe even an M8.

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Just randomly checking out Kolari Vision site, noticed they have updated their disclaimer. Thought I would share it here.

Source: https://kolarivision.com/product/leica_m9_repair/

Specific points that I found insightful:

Quote
  • At the moment, we only support the Leica M9 along with M-E and M9-P’s that use the CCD11 sensors. 
  • Most of the Leica M9’s we receive suffer from a heavily damaged ICF that may crack when being removed from the sensor assembly. We’ve also seen Leica M9s arrive with an already cracked ICF due to the corrosion issue.
  • We found that even with 1-3 corroded wires, the M9 typically works without any noticeable issues after being repaired but we cannot guarantee this for every camera. 
  • We don’t see gel issues with M9, M-E, or M9-P models with CCD ID11 as the glue used on these sensors is different. However with CCD11 sensors, we do  see a high prevalence of cracked sensor glass. The CCD11s are more likely to crack and leave fine scratches on the sensor after the modification. 
  • we’ve been seeing that almost all M9’s with CCD ID5 sensors are also affected by a liquid gel substance. We believe it stems from the glass adhesive that can leak onto the sensor and corrode through bond wires. This liquid gel is visible under a microscope but can’t always be seen by the naked eye.

 

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On 10/8/2021 at 11:20 PM, analog-digital said:

An M9 with corrosion is not worth repairing. Especially if you don't know what the result will be. As already written, I had mine repaired at dllewellyn ($1500.-). Conclusion: I was really not satisfied with it. But he is not interested in that. With the argument that I was a delicate customer, it was off the table for him. Nothing could be done, because the $1500 had to be paid in advance.

So, keep your hands off such repair attempts and rather buy another digital Leica. Maybe even an M8.

It sounds like you've had a terrible service and I can understand your frustration. However there may be other, more reliable service providers. There has been some discussion about a UK based repair place which is much cheaper (IIRC £500 was mentioned). Of course, I have no idea about their work but there is a member who has used them a few times IIRC. In conclusion I would say that if a corroded unit can be bought cheap and repaired reliably you could end up with a working M9 at under £1000. To me anyway, that is worth it.

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7 hours ago, Jrek said:

Does anyone know about UK based company undertaking repair of corroded M9 glass now?

I remember ACS were talking about possibility some time a go but nothing has been confirmed yet.

My M9 is with them at the moment having the glass replaced, I do know that they have a backlog of other work to catch up on after the pandemic & also that they are trying to source a supplier for the thinner cover glass.

 

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vor 11 Stunden schrieb ianman:

It sounds like you've had a terrible service and I can understand your frustration. However there may be other, more reliable service providers. There has been some discussion about a UK based repair place which is much cheaper (IIRC £500 was mentioned). Of course, I have no idea about their work but there is a member who has used them a few times IIRC. In conclusion I would say that if a corroded unit can be bought cheap and repaired reliably you could end up with a working M9 at under £1000. To me anyway, that is worth it.

It may be that there are other, better providers. But I am talking explicitly about dllewellyn. Problems can occur, but how you solve them is crucial. But this man pushes the whole thing onto the customer.

Once again, let the corroded M9 die with honor. There are "better" digital Leica cameras.

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7 hours ago, Marac said:

My M9 is with them at the moment having the glass replaced, I do know that they have a backlog of other work to catch up on after the pandemic & also that they are trying to source a supplier for the thinner cover glass.

 

How much they quoted for the glass replacement?

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3 hours ago, Jarekjj said:

How much they quoted for the glass replacement?

Best thing to do is to call them direct and speak to David. Mine was the first one they worked on and as such would not be a relevent guide to their repair cost. I can say it was well under £1k all-in.

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  • 3 weeks later...

It is likely to progress - in the same way that a car that gets one rusty hole is likely to develop more and more rusty holes with each passing year.

How long before the camera becomes "unusable" is variable - local climate and humidity seem to be a factor.

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I was in contact with ACS yesterday about my M9 cover glass replacement. The glass they originally used was a tad too thick and so produced an issue with focussing. When set up with a 50mm lens, it was perfect until I put a 28mm on and the focus was off, the same when I tried a 90mm. The cause was due to the thickness of the glass they used.

I was informed yesterday that they have sourced a company who can replicate the Leica M9 cover glass thickness with a non-corrosive coating and hopefully the first batch will be delivered at the end of the month so hopefully by the new year I can bring wonderful news regarding a fix for people with corroded sensors. The company is UK based, I cannot quote a price because they are still evaluating the process from start to finish but I can let you know that is will be under £1k

The greatest issue was to find a supplier of glass that is the exact thickness as the original.

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1 hour ago, Marac said:

I was in contact with ACS yesterday about my M9 cover glass replacement. The glass they originally used was a tad too thick and so produced an issue with focussing. When set up with a 50mm lens, it was perfect until I put a 28mm on and the focus was off, the same when I tried a 90mm. The cause was due to the thickness of the glass they used.

I was informed yesterday that they have sourced a company who can replicate the Leica M9 cover glass thickness with a non-corrosive coating and hopefully the first batch will be delivered at the end of the month so hopefully by the new year I can bring wonderful news regarding a fix for people with corroded sensors. The company is UK based, I cannot quote a price because they are still evaluating the process from start to finish but I can let you know that is will be under £1k

The greatest issue was to find a supplier of glass that is the exact thickness as the original.

Sounds like a good news story for those unfortunate enough to have the corrosion problem.👍

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  • 1 month later...
On 9/11/2020 at 2:47 PM, dllewellyn said:

I have been modifying cameras for over 25 years.  Among the many cameras I own are three M9's and an S2.  One of the M9's I bought had really bad sensor corrosion, and I decided to take it apart to see what was going on.  What I found was:

- The IR Cut Filter (ICF) also functions as sensor coverglass and is epoxied to the sensor itself making removal rather difficult.  The only sensors I have seen with the ICF epoxied on are some Kodak medium format backs.  Kodak made the sensors for the M9 (and then Kodak sold to Truesense and that got sold to On Semiconductor).

- The active sensor part isn't the problem.  The problem is the ICF.  It looked to me like the glass had oxidized (not quite the same as corroded).

- Certain sorts of filter glass are susceptible to oxidization.  Pretty much all the Schott BG and UG types.

- In every camera I have taken apart (I have taken apart thousands), I have never seen an oxidized ICF because they all have vapor deposition metallic coatings on them which seals the glass.  Oxidization is related to time, temperature, humidity, ozone and even the particular glass melt.

- Next I removed the coverglass (again, rather difficult to do without damaging the sensor) and measured the ICF with a spectrometer.  What I found was that Kodak used *uncoated* BG type glass for the ICF.  Somebody really screwed up somewhere.

- After, I decided to remove the Color Filter Array (CFA) and turn it into a monochrome sensor

- Lastly, I installed a new ICF coverglass

- On Semi exited the CCD business so there will be no more new M9 sensors made.  That's why Leica can't repair M9 cameras with sensor problems anymore.

Without trying to be self promoting, if someone needs their M9 sensor fixed and/or converted to monochrome, I know how.

 

Are you still doing this? I would love to have an M9 Monochrome. Please contact me at AndColor@mac.com

PS...I have the M9

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