M10-R First Day Problems

[agencal]

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Today i just bought my M10-R to use with 50mm apo cron and Zeiss 35mm biogon f2.8.

Maybe to early to speak but i have some problems.

1.AWB is nothing like m10.I am shooting dng only and when i open the files in adobe camera raw the is always a green color cast even at base iso.Than green cast can be seen on m10r's lcd as well.Maybe it is the cause of early firmware.I had yellowish color cast with my m240 at first but disappeared with the firmware updates.

2.50mm apo is not as sharp as it on 24mp M10.Especially at the corners.It is my trusted lens for years and never acted like this.Zeiss 35mm biogon C is a tack sharp lens as well but it also have corner softness issues which also did not have at m10. What i realised is m10-r handles lots more with the sharpness setting of adobe camera raw.It can go up to 85 without any artifacts.Maybe they decreased default sharpening compare to m10 or maybe even with 41mp lenses started to show their weakneses.Who knows.

I am a real fan for leica who have been using the brand for years so please don't hate me like i am a paid troller for other brands I really want to understand if anyone else has similar problems.

 

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[John Miranda]

Hi,  As an experiment, have you tried shooting a test image exporting both JPG and DNG just to compare how the two files types render at first glance on your computer?  If the JPG comes across reasonably balanced, say shooting at daylight outside, but the DNG looks way off, It may point to how your raw processor is interpreting the camera and/or DNG file.  Perhaps #2 is related to #1 if somehow the RAW processor mis-identified the camera?  

[jwr50]

Are you sure you have the latest firmware update?

[agencal]

4 hours ago, agencal said:

Today i just bought my M10-R to use with 50mm apo cron and Zeiss 35mm biogon f2.8.

Maybe to early to speak but i have some problems.

1.AWB is nothing like m10.I am shooting dng only and when i open the files in adobe camera raw the is always a green color cast even at base iso.Than green cast can be seen on m10r's lcd as well.Maybe it is the cause of early firmware.I had yellowish color cast with my m240 at first but disappeared with the firmware updates.

2.50mm apo is not as sharp as it on 24mp M10.Especially at the corners.It is my trusted lens for years and never acted like this.Zeiss 35mm biogon C is a tack sharp lens as well but it also have corner softness issues which also did not have at m10. What i realised is m10-r handles lots more with the sharpness setting of adobe camera raw.It can go up to 85 without any artifacts.Maybe they decreased default sharpening compare to m10 or maybe even with 41mp lenses started to show their weakneses.Who knows.

I am a real fan for leica who have been using the brand for years so please don't hate me like i am a paid troller for other brands I really want to understand if anyone else has similar problems.

 

That is a good point and sure i willl try. But altough i am shooting raw only the isn’t the file shown on the m10r’s lcd is a jpeg preview? It looks the same as my imacs lcd😳

[agencal]

1 hour ago, jwr50 said:

Are you sure you have the latest firmware update?

Yes both camera and photoshop are up to date.

[adan]

- So exactly how is your ACR white-balance set up, by default?

If you have ACR set/defaulting to "As Shot" it should use what the camera "thought" was correct, and showed you on the camera screen. If it is not, that's an issue to sort out.

If you have ACR set/defaulting to "Auto" - you are not getting the camera's chosen WB (ACR ignores it), you are getting Adobe's best guess as to the correct WB at the moment of opening the file. (ACR looks at the brightest areas in the picture and assumes they should be balanced to "white" - equal amounts of red/green/blue - which doesn't always work if the brightest thing in the picture is a pink neon sign )

If you have ACR set/defaulting to a specific personal WB (I use 5000°K and tint zero with plain vanilla M10), ACR will use that in place of the camera's guess.

If you are using some other preset WB (Daylight, Tungsten, Cloudy, etc.), ACR will also ignore the camera's estimate white balance and use the preset.

- Also, which camera calibration profile are you using in ACR? Adobe Standard, or Leica Embedded?

- As to corner sharpness - are things simply blurry? Or is there streaking of a directional nature (out from the center, or around the center, of the picture)? What shutter speed was used?

Edited September 3, 2020 by adan

[dkmoore]

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Accidentally leave a green filter on the lens?

[scott kirkpatrick]

I see we are assuming ACR, but please, OP, could you specify your processing tools and settings.  There are some questions unresolved about AWB in low exotic light with the first production firmware, but there is a significant user base with both Adobe and COne tools here to try get them clarified.  It is likely that this is still being worked at Leica and in the software companies.

Good examples are useful as well.

[John Smith]

13 hours ago, agencal said:

1.AWB is nothing like m10.I am shooting dng only and when i open the files in adobe camera raw the is always a green color cast even at base iso.Than green cast can be seen on m10r's lcd as well.Maybe it is the cause of early firmware.I had yellowish color cast with my m240 at first but disappeared with the firmware updates.

I experienced the same thing, but it was corrected after I updated the firmware.

[agencal]

1 hour ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

I see we are assuming ACR, but please, OP, could you specify your processing tools and settings.  There are some questions unresolved about AWB in low exotic light with the first production firmware, but there is a significant user base with both Adobe and COne tools here to try get them clarified.  It is likely that this is still being worked at Leica and in the software companies.

Good examples are useful as well.

I am using ACR with the latest firmware.I open the dng file directly with photoshop(acr) 

Default WB which is “as shot” and m10-r profile.By the way when i change the profile from adobe color to m10-r white balance valuea also changes and then i try to make it more natural to my eyes.

[agencal]

13 minutes ago, John Smith said:

I experienced the same thing, but it was corrected after I updated the firmware.

When i dowloaded the latest firmware i saw that my m10r is up to date so i could not go further.Let me look again if the one i downloaded is the latest👍🏻
 

edit: I have checked again and the firmware on my camera is 10.20.27.20

So i think i am up to date. 🤷‍♂️

Edited September 3, 2020 by agencal

[jaapv]

It might be a good idea to make an M10R profile using the Xrite Colorchecker Passport. That solved the initial M240 problems for me.

[dkmoore]

1 hour ago, agencal said:

When i dowloaded the latest firmware i saw that my m10r is up to date so i could not go further.Let me look again if the one i downloaded is the latest👍🏻
 

edit: I have checked again and the firmware on my camera is 10.20.27.20

So i think i am up to date. 🤷‍♂️

Check your in camera WB setting to ensure it is on auto. If it is already, test other settings. 
 

The first thing I would do is reset the camera to factory settings and try again. 

[Matlock]

2 hours ago, dkmoore said:

The first thing I would do is reset the camera to factory settings and try again. 

I had a similar problem and the reset to factory settings cured it, no further problems. Give it a try.

[Tailwagger]

WB is one thing, but acuity is something else. Have neither lens you referenced, but of the dozen or so M optics I do possess, not one is weaker on the 10-R than the M10 I traded for it. Quite the contrary, corners or otherwise. Something seems fishy to me.

[Kwesi]

On 9/2/2020 at 4:58 PM, agencal said:

Today i just bought my M10-R to use with 50mm apo cron and Zeiss 35mm biogon f2.8.

Maybe to early to speak but i have some problems.

1.AWB is nothing like m10.I am shooting dng only and when i open the files in adobe camera raw the is always a green color cast even at base iso.Than green cast can be seen on m10r's lcd as well.Maybe it is the cause of early firmware.I had yellowish color cast with my m240 at first but disappeared with the firmware updates.

2.50mm apo is not as sharp as it on 24mp M10.Especially at the corners.It is my trusted lens for years and never acted like this.Zeiss 35mm biogon C is a tack sharp lens as well but it also have corner softness issues which also did not have at m10. What i realised is m10-r handles lots more with the sharpness setting of adobe camera raw.It can go up to 85 without any artifacts.Maybe they decreased default sharpening compare to m10 or maybe even with 41mp lenses started to show their weakneses.Who knows.

I am a real fan for leica who have been using the brand for years so please don't hate me like i am a paid troller for other brands I really want to understand if anyone else has similar problems.

 

The issues you are bringing up does sound like a potential problem with the camera/sensor. Are you able to go back to the store and compare it with another M10-R?

[microview]

If I remember correctly the info provided with the first download suggested some user might experience a greenish cast and that they should reset the M10R which would resolve the problem But doubtless you already have done this.

[Adam Bonn]

On 9/3/2020 at 3:37 AM, adan said:

- So exactly how is your ACR white-balance set up, by default?

If you have ACR set/defaulting to "As Shot" it should use what the camera "thought" was correct, and showed you on the camera screen. If it is not, that's an issue to sort out

FWIW if you take an M9 and an M240, set both to 5000 kelvin in the camera menu.

Upon import into LR, LR states one camera is something like (Iirc) 4800 and the other is 4900 (yet each was set at 5000)

I dare say that 5 different picture editing apps would give 5 different values (and none of them would be 5000)

The numeric value of WB suggests that it’s a set numerical standard.. but like velocity and temperature, weight and size... there’s apparently many numerical standards that can describe the same thing.
 

 

(Completely off topic and far too geeky... but if you hack the LR M9.dcp file so that LR thinks it’s the M240.dcp file... when you apply this M9 “”profile”” to an M240 not only only do you get awful colours, but also the kelvin value jumps about 1500... so take one shot with an M240, apply the correct .dcp to one, make a copy and apply the hacked M9 .dcp to the other, and if the M240 WB is 4500 the “M9” will be 6000... yet exactly the same file...)

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[Jofinal]

Hello Agencal,
Have you found a solution for your green tint problem on the M10R directly? I'm having the same problem as you, so if you've found a solution, I'm all ears. THANKS

Edited August 30, 2023 by Jofinal

[jaapv]

There have several solutions given above. Colour from raw is not created by the camera but by the postprocessing program. So change the default conversion settings in your PP, either by making an individual camera profile or by adjusting an image to your liking and saving the settings as default.