New Leica lenses Made in Portugal

[Pixeleater]

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A quick price check showed @ 10% savings on the lux 50 mm 1.4. Not a complete work around of the 25% tariffs.

[logan2z]

2 hours ago, adan said:

lAs to people paying more for the items labelled "Made in Germany," in my view that is just a suitable "tax on ignorance." (a.k.a. "A fool and his money are soon parted.")

I don't disagree. Had it not been for the fact that I was about to pull the trigger on the 50 Cron anyway, I don't think this announcement would have made me run out and buy a lens.

Who knows how this will all play out in the long run - whether the switch to final assembly in Portugal is permanent or just a temporary workaround for the current tariffs.  But I don't see any down side to owning a Made in Germany Leica lens, and the small premium paid may turn out to be worth it if resale value ever becomes important.  There are, after all, a lot of us fools out there 😉

[250swb]

2 hours ago, Pixeleater said:

A quick price check showed @ 10% savings on the lux 50 mm 1.4. Not a complete work around of the 25% tariffs.

25% will be the future difference second hand between 'Made in Portugal' and 'Made in Germany'. So people will save 10% now but lose far more down the road. This scheme is window dressing and purely to help Leica not it's customers.

[pedaes]

4 hours ago, logan2z said:

switch to final assembly in Portugal

It maybe that the only practical difference (apart from the script) is that the lenses are packaged in Portugal and not sent to Wetzlar for packaging and earning the "Made in Germany' label. Personally I would be absolutely convinced there will be no change in quality.

[luigi bertolotti]

4 hours ago, 250swb said:

25% will be the future difference second hand between 'Made in Portugal' and 'Made in Germany'. So people will save 10% now but lose far more down the road. This scheme is window dressing and purely to help Leica not it's customers.

I agree...but who knows ? This silly issue of tariffs can be short-lived... and maybe in 20 years or so a lens with "Made in Portugal" will be a collectible... 😄

[Jeff S]

9 hours ago, Pixeleater said:

A quick price check showed @ 10% savings on the lux 50 mm 1.4. Not a complete work around of the 25% tariffs.

Leica decided not to increase lens prices by 25% to offset tariffs (for the US); rather they spread the price increases by roughly 10% across product lines, both cameras and lenses (with a couple of exclusions like the SL2, which is in a very competitive market segment, unlike the M line).

Jeff

Edited August 26, 2020 by Jeff S

[NigelG]

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Nice to see a “third” batch of the supposedly-limited-to-500 retro bc summilux in the pipeline...maybe the “made in portugal” ones will be the rarest!

(I bought one of the second run so don’t have any axe to grind re the “limited” status of the first run....)

[Jean-Michel]

Too bad, for USA customers, that Leica no longer operates the Midland, Ontario, Canada. The lenses could then have been "Made in Canada" and avoid the USA tariff due to NAFTA Version.2 !

I understand, from Leica history lore, that years ago, some  lenses and M bodies made in Midland were sent for final assembly - wink-wing-nudge-nudge- to Germany so that they could sport a fine "made in Germany" label.  

A made in Portugal lens will of course make your images look more latinate and less germanic; and a future MFA curatorial studies dream.

 

[jaeger]

8 hours ago, 250swb said:

25% will be the future difference second hand between 'Made in Portugal' and 'Made in Germany'. So people will save 10% now but lose far more down the road. This scheme is window dressing and purely to help Leica not it's customers.

I wonder why it's not written "Made in EU" instead.

17 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Thanks,

even this one !

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

The limited edition has become unlimited production, screw "Lie"-ca

[graphlex]

Some of these lenses may have had a considerable percentage of their value added in Portugal all along. 

[mmradman]

The tariff busting models have barrels engraved Made in Portugal, which means they were manufactured in same place after the introduction of US tariffs. Label Made in Germany was tenuous at best of times. 

[250swb]

1 hour ago, Jean-Michel said:

Too bad, for USA customers, that Leica no longer operates the Midland, Ontario, Canada. The lenses could then have been "Made in Canada" and avoid the USA tariff due to NAFTA Version.2 !

I understand, from Leica history lore, that years ago, some  lenses and M bodies made in Midland were sent for final assembly - wink-wing-nudge-nudge- to Germany so that they could sport a fine "made in Germany" label.  

A made in Portugal lens will of course make your images look more latinate and less germanic; and a future MFA curatorial studies dream.

 

As I understand it when Leica Canada shut down the inventory was sent to Wetzlar and assembled but kept it's 'Made in Canada' script if the part was already engraved. That is why I have a 'Made in Canada' M4-P that was assembled in  Wetzlar. So hardly a cynical move.

[logan2z]

1 hour ago, graphlex said:

Some of these lenses may have had a considerable percentage of their value added in Portugal all along. 

That may be true.  But as I mentioned in the thread I started here (mods: can we merge the threads please?), the change to brand the lenses 'Made in Portugal' instead of 'Made in Germany' does have some significance - in terms of perception, if nothing else. 

There are rules governing 'Made in...' statements and I have no doubt that Leica complied with them to obtain 'Made in Germany' status.  While I'm sure the new lenses will be of the same quality as the prior ones (the only difference probably being the location of final assembly), I agree with others that this could likely have an effect on resale value.  Some people (admittedly I'm one of them) will value a 'Made in Germany' lens over one labelled 'Made in Portugal'.

[Jean-Michel]

21 minutes ago, 250swb said:

As I understand it when Leica Canada shut down the inventory was sent to Wetzlar and assembled but kept it's 'Made in Canada' script if the part was already engraved. That is why I have a 'Made in Canada' M4-P that was assembled in  Wetzlar. So hardly a cynical move.

Hi,

I am quite sure that you are correct on this. And, there is no cynical move on any of it, the lenses and cameras were and still are Leicas. What I referred to was that, according to some articles I read some years ago and databases of Leica serial numbers, that some items, such as my M3, engraved with 'Germany' were actually made in Midland. For example, my M3 falls in the 866621 to 867000 range and according to https://www.cameraquest.com/leicanum.htm it is one of 380 M3 bodies assembled in Midland; the engraving says "WETZLAR Germany" no particular "made in" reference.

FYI, the http://www.summilux.net/numeros/ site allows you to enter the serial number of a lens and it will show the year of manufacture. They do not claim accuracy as it seems that Leic used to assign batches of numbers to a production and occasionally a different product would end up with a serial number from within that batch of numbers. Their database if for items predating 2006.

 

[Gobert]

4 hours ago, Jean-Michel said:

Too bad, for USA customers, that Leica no longer operates the Midland, Ontario, Canada. The lenses could then have been "Made in Canada" and avoid the USA tariff due to NAFTA Version.2 !

I understand, from Leica history lore, that years ago, some  lenses and M bodies made in Midland were sent for final assembly - wink-wing-nudge-nudge- to Germany so that they could sport a fine "made in Germany" label.  

A made in Portugal lens will of course make your images look more latinate and less germanic; and a future MFA curatorial studies dream.

 

The portraits of Portuguese women might be more sparkling.

[logan2z]

Looks like Leica will continue to offer Made in Germany lenses alongside the Made in Portugal lenses.

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2020/08/leica-introduces-made-in-portugal-m-lenses-at-lower-pricing/

[logan2z]

I didn't want to cross post this in both threads but thought it was interesting enough...

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2020/08/leica-introduces-made-in-portugal-m-lenses-at-lower-pricing/

So Leica will continue to offer the same models Made in Germany and Made in Portugal.

[Tailwagger]

Sadly, the more interesting to me lenses are not on the list. If I could get a 28mm lux at the pre-tariff rate, I'd spring for one, Portugal or otherwise. And who knows, if DT vacates the throne in a few months perhaps the next regime will be a bit more sensible... not that there's much evidence to suggest that one way or the other. But if so, and things go back to normal the limited run MIP lens might become collectible rarities.  

Edited August 26, 2020 by Tailwagger

[masjah]

Just as some Leica products marked Made in Germany might have a substantial part of their manufacture performed elsewhere (with just enough in Germany to qualify for the descriptor) so the converse might also be true. After all, there's not a lot of point in duplicating a lot of very expensive manufacturing facilities for the sake of 10% of retail cost. My guess is that, for lenses also available as Made in Germany, the Portuguese variants would be also almost completely made in Germany, with just enough final assembly done in Portugal to qualify for the Made in Portugal descriptor. Whatever, I would be perfectly happy to buy either.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[adan]

Are the "Made in Portugal" lenses even available anywhere other than the US?

(answered my own question - from the RedDotForum post immediately above:)

Quote

Today, Leica has announced that they will be offering a series of Made in Portugal M lenses. Nine of the most popular M lenses will be produced at Leica’s factory in Portugal, in addition to the standard German-manufactured lenses. This new range will only be offered for sale in the US.

Might be interesting for someone outside the US (who needs a new lens ) to try ordering the Portugese lenses shipped to a non-US address. May well be prohibited. 

It's a tariff thing - places without tariffs on German optics continue to get the Wetzlar lenses (and only the Wetzlar lenses) at the normal un-tariffed price; places with tariffs on german-made can get German-made at the extra cost, or "Made in Portugal" with some savings.

Let's be clear - this is not because Portugese manufacturing is cheaper. In reality, it is probably slightly more expensive, due to the extra logistics involved. It is because there are no tariffs on lenses made in Portugal. If the US tariffs on German optics are lifted, that'll be the end of the "Made in Portugal" lenses, most likely. No knock on Portugal, but this is not a quality or cost thing, it is an international trade-dispute thing.

I'm not pursuaded the manufacturing in Portugal amounts to much more than "final assembly" and shipping. Ship a German-built lens to Portugal in two or three pieces (one engraved "Made in Portugal"), assemble them together, put them in the boxes marked "Made in Portugal," and ship them. (Apologies to masjah, who posts as I write).