Rumour: 2 New Heritage Lenses

[Mark T]

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Leica Rumours has reported two new "Heritage Lenses" on the way. See here. The article mentions a 35mm/2.8 and a 50mm/1.2, presumably modern copies of the old Summaron and the original Noctilux. Both of these would be very interesting to me personally. The former as the perfect travel/walkabout lens and the latter as the only sensible Noctilux (and now a highly sought collectors item). So, has anyone heard anything about this? Share your gossip, expectations, Leica lust below!

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[Jeff S]

Just picked up a lovely M mount 35 Summaron f2.8 with DAG CLA and 6 month warranty.  This 60 year old lens already looks and performs like it was just made. And a bargain, too.  😊

Jeff

Edited August 25, 2020 by Jeff S

[Mark T]

1 minute ago, Jeff S said:

Just picked up a lovely M mount 35 Summaron f2.8 with DAG CLA and 6 month warranty.  This 60 year old lens already looks and performs like it was just made. And a bargain, too.  😊

Jeff

Agreed Jeff, I had one ten years ago and traveled around Asia with it. I very much liked the pictures that it produced. However, it didn't survive being rattled around too well and ultimately came apart. It was easily repaired but was not up to the type of rough travel I enjoy. Although the modern Summarit I replaced it with manages quite well, a new Summaron version would be very tempting indeed for that lovely vintage look and tiny size.

[Jeff S]

Strange, mine seems built like a tank.  If only modern Leica lenses had such strong aperture detents and smooth focus action. Some others here have enthused about theirs, without mention of any fragility; in fact, the contrary.  

Jeff

[adan]

It'll be interesting to see if the rumored 50mm f/1.2

1) uses aspherics like the original

2) uses hand-ground aspherics like the original

3) uses press-molded ASPHs like today's lenses

The hand-manufactured elements of the original (and the 35 f/1.4 double-aspherical 1990) had high discard rates, making both eventually uneconomical (cost more to make than they could sell for).

[Ko.Fe.]

I dunno, I'm not getting this retro line. First two at least  .

If I would want classic 35 2.8 M mount lens which sings classic tunes it would be CV ZM 35 2.8. I mean on results, not on the exterior and finish.  

[Mark T]

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28 minutes ago, adan said:

It'll be interesting to see if the rumored 50mm f/1.2

1) uses aspherics like the original

2) uses hand-ground aspherics like the original

3) uses press-molded ASPHs like today's lenses

The hand-manufactured elements of the original (and the 35 f/1.4 double-aspherical 1990) had high discard rates, making both eventually uneconomical (cost more to make than they could sell for).

I'd reckon they would use press moulding? I think that the original was the first production lens to use aspheric elements and I suppose hand grinding was the only technique for producing such elements at that time. You'd imagine that the high discard rate came from errors in the hand grinding method and if Leica could get around this with more modern manufacturing techniques they surely would. All that said, I would be happy with whatever manufacturing technique they use, assuming the resulting image was the same. Press moulded elements ought to make it relatively cheaper too, which is always a bonus in the world of exorbitant Leica pricing!

[Ecar]

Interesting. If the rumour about the 50/1.2 is true, there may be two replicas available in the not-too-distant future: one made by Leica themselves and one made by China-based Light Lens Lab, who have already cloned the original 8-element Summicron 35/2 (rather successfully, judging from users' feedback on RFF) and whose next project is the original Noctilux.

Perhaps Leica is trying to prevent others from getting first dibs on their own (likely expired) design patents?

[Arrow]

I am quite curious, what revivals they will come up with.

The Summaron 28 and the Thambar 90 booth have very distinct rendering qualities that, to me, did justify the reduction.

Don't now, what was so specials in th case of the 35 2.8.

The uniqueness of the original Noctilux 1.2 were the hand ground lens elements. I doubt Leica will come up with an entirely hand ground reedition. It will rather be something like: now with modern technology at hand Leica is finally able to make the 1.2 50 to a quality standard they were aiming for to achieve in the first place. Well, but then the haecciety factor of the original 1.2 will be missed. 

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Arrow

[mmradman]

Providing press aspheric can be manufactured without the “onion rings” and apparently Panasonic can do it the aesthetic of the manually ground lens could be copied.  It may be expensive and perhaps I don’t buy but I would like to see reproduction of the original Noctilux 50mm.

As for Summaron 35mm f2.8 I have a copy as old as I am, works really well on M246. 

[adan]

5 minutes ago, Arrow said:

Don't now, what was so specials in th case of the 35 2.8.

With the caveat that this is still just a rumor....

It seems to me this fills a gap left by the demise of the 35 Summarit f/2.5 (not the f/2.4 tuna-can!) for an ultra-compact, lightweight, E39 lens. With both classic design and classic Mandler double-gauss rendering, rather than the ASPH rendering of the 35 Summarits (or Summicron ASPH).

And in a sense as a place-holder for, and tip-of-the-hat to, all the Mandler compact 35s, Summicrons and Summilux included, from the 1950s through 1994-ish. But without competing head-to-head with today's ASPH f/2.0 and f/1.4 lenses.

Many a 1960s/70s starving-artist photographer got their start in Leica with a used beat-up M2 and 35 Summaron f/2.8. It has an ethos.

https://prosophos.com/2018/01/26/leica-m2-and-35mm-summaron-f-2-8/

If real, I expect it will ship with a revived classic 12504 (pictured) or 12585 slotted clip-on lens hood (and 6-bit coded, of course). At a price somewhere between the 28 Summaron and the 35 Summicron ASPH.

But Bog help us if Leica makes it as the goggled M3 version -

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[mmx_2]

I’d be very surprised if the elements are anything but press molded and cnc machined. I’m anyway excited for the news, but I’m guessing that the new noctilux will be in the 8000-10000eur price range, not necessary because of high manufacturing costs, but simply too keep the myth up and not to cannibalize sales from the current noctilux. The 35 is also interesting, i have it in LTM mount and it’s a really nice little lens, here I’m expecting a price point about 2000eur - similar as the 28.

[colint544]

I think the 35mm Summaron 2.8 was always a dead cert to be brought back in Leica's heritage lens range. The original is a very handy, and well-built lens. I wonder how they would improve upon it. Possibly an all-brass black paint, or black chrome version?

As for the re-introduction of a 50mm 1.2 lens, that would be very interesting. I'm sure I read a rumour ages ago on the Leica Rumors site that it was in the works, but would be branded a Summilux.

One thing about Leica, they know how to make things you really want.

 

[Fedro]

both great heritage lenses. I had heard about the Nocti, not about the Summaron. Nocti I expect to be priced at 10K plus, collectors' prices.

[Ecar]

Not sure they'll have many customers willing to shell out 10K$ for a re-edition Noctilux, but who knows...

[Fedro]

18 minutes ago, Ecar said:

Not sure they'll have many customers willing to shell out 10K$ for a re-edition Noctilux, but who knows...

I think 10k euros more like, let's see 

[UliWer]

Well, the price tag didn‘t cause so much resistance against the 75mm Noctilux - at least not in this Forum, and they wouldn’t need so many customers to make it a bargain. A 1.2/50mm Noctilux wouldn‘t meet strong competition from the second hand market - this will be different for a 35mm Summaron. 

[TomB_tx]

Used prices of the 35 Summaron have climbed a lot since I bought mine a few years ago, and is is still scarce in the market. Should have room to price it reasonably, since as was noted the 35 Summarit leaves a gap in the lens range. I can't see them making an ltm version though.

I have both the 35 2.8 Summaron and the 35 Summicron Ver1 - and prefer the images from the Summaron. I still use the 2.5 Summarit most on my M10.

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[adan]

54 minutes ago, Ecar said:

Not sure they'll have many customers willing to shell out 10K$ for a re-edition Noctilux, but who knows...

Dunno - the originals are going for $35K to $50K (!!!!)

[pedaes]

For the Nocti, latest is 100 units only at $10,000 each.