Trying to decide on my first Leica (M2 vs. M4-p)

[Torontoamateur]

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I have the Canadian made M4-P in Black. I have had it for several years  It is a fine camera.  I have the Leica Meter in Black on top. It is an awesome looker.  Because one of my favourite lenses is the 28MM i went for this M4-P and because I am Canadian I bought it. I have the 35mm f/2 made  in Canada for a full Canadian experience. Do not assume or believe the Canadian made are lesser quality Not true !!! In fact the Canadian factory is still operating as ELCAN Optics.

[andrew01]

I agree that the build quality of Canadian lenses is on par with lenses from Wetzlar.  However it is widely reported  that Leica did reduce the build quality of the M4-2 and M4-P compared to earlier M cameras.  The company was not in great financial shape at the time and they needed to reduce costs in an attempt to become profitable.  They are still nice cameras, but not quite as nice as the earlier cameras.  I certainly wouldn’t pay a premium for an M4-2 or M4-P over a nice M2.

Edited August 28, 2020 by andrew01

[Matlock]

9 hours ago, andrew01 said:

However it is widely reported  that Leica did reduce the build quality of the M4-2 and M4-P compared to earlier M cameras. 

Yes it is widely reported but never substantiated. My M4-P is on a par with the earlier German made M4. The M2 is quite a different animal though.

[andrew01]

I base my comments from owning an M3 and an M6.  The latter is basically the same as M4-2/ P with a meter added. The standard of the fit and finish of the M3 in noticeably nicer than the M6.  The M3 has a much smoother mechanical action.  I understand that from M4-2 onward the drivetrain gears switched to steel for improved durability with a motor drive, but the M3 feels much nicer to use.  The switch to zinc top plates was late in the M4-P production but that is a significant step backwards in terms of aesthetics.  I don’t have an M4 but my understanding was these were built to the same standard as M2/3, maybe I am wrong on this.  Of course all M cameras are great cameras, we are just talking about relatively small differences between the very good M6 and Rolex-like quality of the M3.

 

The cameraquest article below describes the differences in more detail:

https://www.cameraquest.com/mguide.htm

[rpsawin]

Have your cake and eat it as well. Buy the M2 and buy an external 28mm VF for framing purposes. I have several of the CV external viewfinders and they work fine.

 

 

https://cameraquest.com/inventor.htm

[ktmrider2]

M2 and M4 are my favorite classic M bodies.  I want a 35mm frame line in the finder so that eliminates the M3.  I do not like the cluttered finder of the M4P and later Leica M cameras.  If you can live with 35/50/90 frame lines, go for the M2.  If you like 28 basically you use the whole viewfinder of the M2.  If you look at 28mm frame lines in the M4P or M6, it is basically the whole finder (and very hard to see even without glasses).  M4P gives you modern film loading which is the deal breaker for some but I am not usually in a hurry loading film these days and the M2/M3 spool system is more reliable.  

Both cameras are fine.  You will not be making a mistake with either the M2 or M4 assuming similar mechanical condition.  And you should be able to sell either at close to what you paid for it if you are not grossly overpaying.

[raizans]

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IMO, color doesn't matter from a practical standpoint, and there's very little to choose between any of the meterless M bodies. I'd save the money and get the M2 if they're in equally good working condition.

When you're dropping a lot of cash on a film camera, it makes you want to overanalyze the decision. Take comfort in the fact that you can always get your money back in the future and try a different camera if it doesn't work out. Maybe you'll want a built-in meter or AE, or a different viewfinder magnification. Or maybe rangefinders aren't for you. You have to start somewhere, and any M is a great place to start.

[normclarke]

M2 every time , I have not been very keen on the later camera's as the viewfinder frames are not very accurate. I have had most model's up to the M6 but have stuck with an old M4-2, does all I need.

[Michael Hiles]

I think the black/chrome question is a non-issue. In 55 years of photographing I have been overtly noticed perhaps 5 times. It was not the camera that was noticed – it was me.

My behaviour was more an issue than my camera. If I made/make a point of being a little subtle and part of the background, I was not noticed.

If you want to be unobtrusive, don’t wear plaid or colourful pants. And keep your mouth shut. And don't worry about your camera.

[SocialKonstruct]

I just got a M2 body today and so far it's a beauty. I never owned a M4 anything so I wouldn't know.

I used to have a M6 classic long time ago but honestly at this rate I really want a M7 or full frame digital M now.

[lmans]

On 10/14/2020 at 11:14 AM, Michael Hiles said:

I think the black/chrome question is a non-issue. In 55 years of photographing I have been overtly noticed perhaps 5 times. It was not the camera that was noticed – it was me.

My behaviour was more an issue than my camera. If I made/make a point of being a little subtle and part of the background, I was not noticed.

If you want to be unobtrusive, don’t wear plaid or colourful pants. And keep your mouth shut. And don't worry about your camera.

Well said....  Blend into the background. Many times that means hanging around that background for awhile to be 'accepted' as part of it. Than the world is open to you. Also as you said, dress the part. If I am on the streets, ....I look like the streets. The color of my camera or size has never been an issue although....although....I do notice people with DSLR's and lens's....to me, they stand out. jim

[Pyrogallol]

On 8/29/2020 at 4:54 PM, andrew01 said:

I base my comments from owning an M3 and an M6.  The latter is basically the same as M4-2/ P with a meter added. The standard of the fit and finish of the M3 in noticeably nicer than the M6.  The M3 has a much smoother mechanical action.  I understand that from M4-2 onward the drivetrain gears switched to steel for improved durability with a motor drive, but the M3 feels much nicer to use.  The switch to zinc top plates was late in the M4-P production but that is a significant step backwards in terms of aesthetics.  I don’t have an M4 but my understanding was these were built to the same standard as M2/3, maybe I am wrong on this.  Of course all M cameras are great cameras, we are just talking about relatively small differences between the very good M6 and Rolex-like quality of the M3.

 

The cameraquest article below describes the differences in more detail:

https://www.cameraquest.com/mguide.htm

I have an M4 as well as M2. The only thing that feels wrong to me about the M4 is the hinged plastic end piece on the wind-on lever, it feels as if it wants to fall off at the metal pin that is the hinge, it looks as if it belongs on a cheap Japanese SLR.

[tommonego@gmail.com]

I had an M4 winder on an M2, long story, and an M2 with a regular wind. I found the M4 wind faster and a little more ergonomic for the wrist. It lasted 40 years in my hands and now someone else has it. Did seem cheap at first.

[Mikko Kankainen]

My first post 😊

I bought my first film Leica and it was a hard choise between M2 and M4. The dealer had both so I could try them out. The dealer said that he recommends M4 over M2 because M2 viewfinder is easier to get broken if the camera is dropped and something similar happens. It is more expensive and difficult to fix the viewfinder in M2 according to the dealer. And they clearly knew what they were talking about. All they Leicas was serviced prior selling, maybe this information was from there..? 

Because of this I chose M4, absolutely love it. Also tried M6 but M4 viewfinder was much brighter and more contrast on M4, I dont know why this was the case.

[pedaes]

2 hours ago, Mikko Kankainen said:

My first post 

Welcome and enjoy your new to you camera.

I have never heard about your dealers concerns about the M2 viewfinder. I think it a view of that individual which has no factual substance.

It is a good idea not to drop any camera😢

Edited October 27, 2020 by pedaes

[Michael Hiles]

6 hours ago, pedaes said:

I have never heard about your dealers concerns about the M2 viewfinder.😢

Neither have I. The M3 viewfinder is problematic (it is unique) - but all modern Leica viewfinders are based on the M2's version.