50 APO or 0.95 Noctilux?

[M11 for me]

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb fotografr:

It would probably help if you read the initial post.

Oh sorry, just read it.

 

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[fotografr]

22 minutes ago, M10 for me said:

Oh sorry, just read it.

 

All good.

[lexontario]

I would keep the 50 Cron APO and also the Noc 50  1.0.  I have seen many pictures taken with the Noc 1.0 version , I like its rendering.

Have you considered sending it to Leica for a CLA,  yes the picture can be soft but maybe your lens is in need  of adjustment.

I have the 50 APO which is my most used lens, myself I would not trade my APO for a Noc .95

Also have Cron 50 V5, which is not used much but still hanging on to it.

As said in a previous post, maybe rent or try a Noc ,95 at a Leica store  to see if it is what you really want.

[didier]

1 hour ago, satijntje said:

Best compromise between a f2 and a f0.95 lens is a f1.4 50mm Summilux ASPH:
And then, if you also want the best looking lens, go for the Black Chrome version.

 

In my view, the APO is in another league. The summilux asph does not show that astounding purity of colours and transparency. And I always found the Summilux Asph is not very good in the close range, whereas the APO remains outstanding 

[Jeff S]

20 minutes ago, didier said:

And I always found the Summilux Asph is not very good in the close range, whereas the APO remains outstanding 

The floating element no doubt helps close range performance.  All a matter of opinion, and perhaps sample variation, I suppose; mine is completely satisfactory for my print needs.

Jeff

[didier]

20 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

The floating element no doubt helps close range performance.  All a matter of opinion, and perhaps sample variation, I suppose; mine is completely satisfactory for my print needs.

Jeff

I always wondered if it was sample variation, but my 50 lux asph is really deceptive under 1,5m (wide open)

Didier

Edited August 2, 2020 by didier

[Jeffry Abt]

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With the coming of the M10R,  the 50mm APO Cron is all the more valuable. 

 

[fotografr]

7 hours ago, lexontario said:

 

Have you considered sending it to Leica for a CLA,  yes the picture can be soft but maybe your lens is in need  of adjustment.

 

I actually did something like that. Don Goldberg (DAG) is a longtime friend and lives close to me. I took the Noctilux to him and he adjusted it to make it as sharp as possible wide open. The shim he added was about the thickness of a sheet of onion skin but it did make a difference. My problem is probably that I'm comparing it to the 50 APO and it won't ever be that sharp.

I'm still highly impressed with the 50 APO. The only shortcoming in my opinion is that the out of focus rendering isn't as impressive as the 0.95 Noctilux. If I'd gotten feedback from people familiar with both lenses that they were comparable in sharpness, then I would have considered doing the trade due to the beautiful bokeh of the Noct. Other considerations that caused me to dismiss the notion were reminders of the size and weight differences, minimum focusing distance and general ease of use.  I'm sticking with the 50 APO.

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by fotografr

[Jeff S]

The Leica Miami (Red Dot Forum) guys just completed another 2+hr live interactive YouTube presentation, this time dedicated to 50mm lenses.  It of course included discussion of the APO vs the Noctilux versions, with samples.  Here’s a replay if interested.

Jeff

[fotografr]

6 hours ago, didier said:

I always wondered if it was sample variation, but my 50 lux asph is really deceptive under 1,5m (wide open)

Didier

I've owned three of them. Two were superb wide open at minimum distance and one was not at all impressive. I'm sure there are variations.

[fotografr]

50 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

The Leica Miami (Red Dot Forum) guys just completed another 2+hr live interactive YouTube presentation, this time dedicated to 50mm lenses.  It of course included discussion of the APO vs the Noctilux versions, with samples.  Here’s a replay if interested.

Jeff

Perfect. I'm off to the big computer to watch this. Thanks.

(Post video now) David and Josh were pretty clear that there's no better lens on the Monochrom than the 50 APO Summicron. Very interesting discussion. The only part I'd disagree with them on was their admiration for that red anodized 50 APO in a limited edition of 100. Personally, I thought it was hideous.

Edited August 3, 2020 by fotografr

[Jeff S]

Agreed... disgusting red.  

David shared my view that the Noctilux would not be a primary lens choice, more like a 5th or 6th option.  The APO is his favorite.  Josh, however, called the current Noctilux his top choice.  Different strokes (and good marketing for their inventory). 

Later in the video, David referenced this article, for those into Noctilux (and other 50 lens) bokeh differences.

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2014/10/bokeh-kings/
 

Jeff

 

[LeicaR10]

Fotografr,   You face an interesting dilemma with deciding on the 0.95 or 50 APO.  For me, like many here in the forum we all have opinions and impressions on lenses and cameras.  I own and use the 0.95 for many genres of photography and don't mind the weight.  I use to own the 50 APO but for me, it rendered "too perfect" and my clients didn't like it.  I found this article and photographs using many different versions of the M 50mm lenses to be most helpful.  In the end, it gets down to how you wish to render the content of your photograph for that moment in time.  Hope this helps.   Try:   https://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2018/8/6/leica-50mm-noctilux-summilux-summicron-all-versions-plus-summarit-f15    r/ Mark

[JTLeica]

19 hours ago, fotografr said:

I've not been able to personally compare my 50 APO to the 0.95 Noctilux. I do have a late version of the f/1.0 Noctilux and have never been overly impressed with it. My question here is for those lucky enough to own both lenses, or at least to have used both enough to make conclusions. If you absolutely had to choose between the 50 APO and the 0.95 Noctilux (primary use would be on the M10M), which would it be? Thanks!

This should be the simplest decision of any Leica lens choice out there. Do you want a small, perfectly corrected lens, or a large softer, heavy, worse performing less, that does give you an incredible look wide open.

Also, if hate the 50 F1 I dont think you will love the 50 .95. It is sharper and is sharp stopped down. But its still huge and is nowhere near as good at the APO.

 

[phongph]

Hi All!

I have owned both lens. I sold 50 Apo since It was too sharp for portrait. 
I have kept and happy with Nocti 50 0.95 for many purpose of shooting!

Have a nice day!

Thanks!

[darylgo]

Interesting comments here and a difficult decision. Based on mtf curves and resolution the apo would be my choice, emotionally I don’t see the fun of an apo and would choose a Noctilux.  Wide open it has character, closed down it is a stellar lens and more so on a monochrome because CA is not as critical.  Physically, I find the Noctilux too demanding on my hands and wrists, the added grips on the M helps but it now becomes bigger.  Small body, large lens is not a desirable combination.  Ideally, adding a second lens with character will give you everything.  The ver 1 or 2 Summilux continue to be very popular for their rendering and would compliment an apo nicely, giving most of that Noctilux goodness without the weight penalty.   

[Andrea Bianchi]

Even if I had the money, I think I’ll never buy a Noctilux, too big, heavy and “”flashy””.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Andrea Bianchi

[fotografr]

1 hour ago, Andrea Bianchi said:

Even if I had the money, I think I’ll never buy a Noctilux, too big, heavy and “”flashy””.

And not easy to use. One thing that was mentioned by David in the interactive YouTube video linked above is the fact that when the 0.95 is shot wide open at the minimum focusing distance, the depth of field is literally 1 millimeter. If you even breathe too heavily while shooting that distance, your subject will not be properly in focus. Still, they do produce a gorgeous bokeh.

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[Jeff S]

9 minutes ago, fotografr said:

And not easy to use. One thing that was mentioned by David in the interactive YouTube video linked above is the fact that when the 0.95 is shot wide open at the minimum focusing distance, the depth of field is literally 1 millimeter. If you even breathe too heavily while shooting that distance, your subject will not be properly in focus. Still, they do produce a gorgeous bokeh.

And even with perfect technique, that presumes that there’s a subject with 1mm DOF that’s interesting and worthy of capture.  Typically, only part of the subject is in focus, which I often find disturbing.  And the rest...bokeh balls, to me, are like cat pics.... enough by now.  Stopped down a bit provides more flexibility, but is it worth the cost, size and effort, particularly as a primary lens?

Jeff 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Jeff S

[Andrea Bianchi]

If you really need that bokeh I would consider a Summilux.. impressive lens, small and compact. Yet not cheap.