Video: Leica M10-R Interview with Stefan Daniel

[Chaemono]

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I was actually kidding. I ETTR even my M10-P now. The rule ‘expose for the highlights and recover for the shadows’ does not apply to modern sensors, IMO.

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[SrMi]

11 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

I was actually kidding. I ETTR even my M10-P now. The rule ‘expose for the highlights and recover for the shadows’ does not apply to modern sensors, IMO.

To clarify: ETTR matters only for base ISO. Otherwise, increased amplification noise negates the benefits.

[scott kirkpatrick]

Maybe it s the time for exposure obsessives to start arguing for a 14-bit histogram with three color channels.  At present we only get that information when the raw file is opened in an editor.  ETTR advocates can't really see if the information that they cram into the upper bits of the pixel data is crushed or resolved without a true histogram.  What is displayed at present is based on the JPEG that is constructed with each shot, then thrown away by most of us. 

[Chaemono]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb SrMi:

To clarify: ETTR matters only for base ISO. Otherwise, increased amplification noise negates the benefits.

In theory but in practice it depends on the sensor and the scene one is shooting. M10-P ISO 200 and ISO 3200 files both ETTR in #24 here: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/311483-staying-put-or-time-to-move-on/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-4015387

They look pretty close in #25 to me.

 

[jonoslack]

18 hours ago, SrMi said:

I do not see any reason for persistent negative exposure correction. M10-R preserves highlights well.
Leica M metering differs whether using live-view (multi-field metering) or rangefinder (mostly center-weighted metering). That means that, especially with rangefinder shooting, the exposure depends on the framing. 
When I have time, or can prepare, I prefer to do manual exposure using histogram and blinkies in live-view. Otherwise, EV 0 works quite well. 

I agree - I use -0.7 On my M10, but I don’t usually bother on the M10-R

[Manicouagan1]

It is good to know that the new sensor/firmware combination has really reduced the issue of unexpectedly burned out highlights.  I was not sure if the improved headroom was marketing hype or a useful feature.  As  soon as my M10-R arrives later this week I am off to the San Juan Islands of Washington where I plan to take a lot of seascapes with lots of surf and foam, so I was trying to get a idea of a starting point.   I found the raw histogram of the M9 Monochrom very useful, and have been puzzeled why it could not have been continued given the growth in processing power in camera.  

[darylgo]

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The increased recovery of highlights is quite an improvement with the R, I was able to shoot a high contrast subject with bracketing toward over-exposure and recover 4-5 stops of highlights.  After evaluating the histogram I noticed, unlike my other Leicas, that the R underexposes, the histogram would sit mostly on the shadow side or to the left.  So, what appears 4-5 stops is perhaps 1-2+.  

ETTR doesn't work well for me with previous Leicas, I find the highlight side (non-blown) can not be recovered in many shots, the colors remain washed out and lack the normal contrast of a proper exposure, post processing can not correct this.    

The resolution increase from the M10-P has been underwhelming, I was expecting more and perhaps it speaks to the superlative sensors Leica has provided to us with the M240 and the M10.  I am also finding my classical lenses such as the Noctilux f1 have issues with purple fringing, non-fixable in Lightroom, this is also evident with my 35mm Summilux FLE.  These are simply early findings and I am not sure the current version of Lightroom has the correct profile for the M10-R.  

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, darylgo said:

The increased recovery of highlights is quite an improvement with the R, I was able to shoot a high contrast subject with bracketing toward over-exposure and recover 4-5 stops of highlights.  After evaluating the histogram I noticed, unlike my other Leicas, that the R underexposes, the histogram would sit mostly on the shadow side or to the left.  So, what appears 4-5 stops is perhaps 1-2+.  

ETTR doesn't work well for me with previous Leicas, I find the highlight side (non-blown) can not be recovered in many shots, the colors remain washed out and lack the normal contrast of a proper exposure, post processing can not correct this.    

The resolution increase from the M10-P has been underwhelming, I was expecting more and perhaps it speaks to the superlative sensors Leica has provided to us with the M240 and the M10.  I am also finding my classical lenses such as the Noctilux f1 have issues with purple fringing, non-fixable in Lightroom, this is also evident with my 35mm Summilux FLE.  These are simply early findings and I am not sure the current version of Lightroom has the correct profile for the M10-R.  

I cannot replicate your observation that M10-R underexposes when compared to M10-P.
With my M10-P and M10-R, I shot the same five scenes at fixed shutter speed and aperture, and with Auto-ISO (50mm lenses, Summicron f2 on R, APO-Summicron f2 on P) . The difference in metering is between .5 and 1 EV, M10-P always using higher ISOs for exposure. To get the same histogram in LrC, I had to lower the exposure slider on the M10-P image or the M10-R image but at most 1/3 EV. It seems that neither camera underexposes by default.

[scott kirkpatrick]

Here's a second Stefan Daniel interview, conducted over Zoom by LeicaUSA:

 

[Guest]

Good video,i would prefer the M10 basic with 10% extra battery life if i was an M10 user.

[scott kirkpatrick]

And here's still another M10-R interview, this time with Jesko von Oeynhausen, the product manager.  This one is a bit less marketing talk and goes into some M series digital history.  For example, have you seen the picture of pre M8 which was cobbled up from an M7 with  DMR back?

https://we.tl/t-BcPudp321R  (the video will download)

[pedaes]

32 minutes ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

For example, have you seen the picture of pre M8 which was cobbled up from an M7 with  DMR back?

The book Jesko was holding up with the picture referenced is Lars Netopil's "Museum Leica" https://www.amazon.com/MUSEUM-LEICA-collection-including-Collection/dp/300059261X

[sillbeers15]

On 7/16/2020 at 11:26 PM, Jeff S said:

I asked Jono (separate thread with his review), and he said it presented no problems for him.

Jeff

I have the same concern. But I have taken delivery of it, so too late for me to regret. I’ll know when I get to use it after I quarantine it.

[Chaemono]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb sillbeers15:

I have the same concern. But I have taken delivery of it, so too late for me to regret. I’ll know when I get to use it after I quarantine it.

Let’s see. 😁