poli Posted June 10, 2020 Share #41 Posted June 10, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) Macro elmar lens. One with and one without the macro extension thingy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 Hi poli, Take a look here Spot the difference!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pippy Posted June 10, 2020 Share #42 Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) Is it simply that one is an un-coated lens (early '30s f4 Elmar LTM) and the other a later coated example? Scrap THAT answer, too, as you say it's an M lens. Is it to do with coatings, though? Philip. Edited June 10, 2020 by pippy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giannis Posted June 10, 2020 Share #43 Posted June 10, 2020 Fungus maybe? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERA23 Posted June 10, 2020 Share #44 Posted June 10, 2020 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/310447-spot-the-difference/?do=findComment&comment=3991045'>More sharing options...
pop Posted June 10, 2020 Share #45 Posted June 10, 2020 I have seen similar differences when using Summarit-M vs. Summicron lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsuitus Posted June 10, 2020 Share #46 Posted June 10, 2020 45 minutes ago, pgk said: The two shots are on two different copies of the same 90mm Leica M lens. They were taken seconds apart and were given the same exposure and identical treatment when sorting them out for web use - the files have the same adjustments. The difference is down to the lenses. One is a German 90mm and the other is a Canadian 90mm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted June 10, 2020 Author Share #47 Posted June 10, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 36 minutes ago, pippy said: Is it to do with coatings, though? Philip. Bingo! Yes. I have two copies of the 90mm f/2.8 Elmarit-M, so a fairly recent, if obsolete lens. One is as expected, as you can tell. The other I bought very cheap with significant coating damage. Looking at the front element its obvious that the coating has come off but it doesn't look as though it would have the dramatic effect that it does (might make a good portrait lens as is though). This is why I like filters. Scratches are, in my experience, much less of a problem, but damaged coatings can show decreased contrast and 'bleeding' highlights. Leica told me last year that coatings cannot be repaired so it will need a new front element (this is not cheap) - I will probably get them to replace the element though and 6-bit code it so that I have an exceptionally good copy of one of my favourite lenses. I thought that it might interest everyone though because it shows what can happen if you do not care for your lenses! 3 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted June 10, 2020 Share #48 Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, pgk said: ...One is as expected, as you can tell. The other I bought very cheap with significant coating damage. Looking at the front element its obvious that the coating has come off but it doesn't look as though it would have the dramatic effect that it does... Thank you for posting the example, Paul; very interesting to see how much difference coatings - and a well-kept lens - can make. I see you will probably have the element replaced but it might be interesting (only if you have the time and interest!) to see if there is a substantial difference between the two copies under more controlled lighting. I mention this because you opine that it might well be a fine portrait lens and, simply by keeping the front element flagged-off from a light source, I suspect you are very possibly correct. Philip. Just as a post-script; How much of the contrast can be salvaged- everything taken into account - in post-prod? Edited June 10, 2020 by pippy 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 10, 2020 Share #49 Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, adan said: I'll play. 90mm lens(es) Option 1: same lens, before and after removing/replacing lens when gear is cold-soaked, in high humidity. Fog condenses on rear element or sensor glass. Option 1a: swapping lenses (any) - same effect as (1) Option 2: any modern Leica 90mm (Summicron/Summarit/Elmarit-M/Macro - top) vs. Tele-Elmarit-M (in flare-prone light - i.e. bright sky just outside frame) At least me too thought of a 90... I would have said something like a prewar and postwar Elmar... Edited June 10, 2020 by luigi bertolotti 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted June 10, 2020 Author Share #50 Posted June 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, luigi bertolotti said: At least me too thought of a 90... I would have said something like a prewar and postwar Elmar... Isn't it amazing just how much difference good coating can make. I wonder how good some of the pre-war designs would be if they were made today and a good set of coatings were applied? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted June 10, 2020 Share #51 Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, pgk said: Isn't it amazing just how much difference good coating can make. I wonder how good some of the pre-war designs would be if they were made today and a good set of coatings were applied? Try out a 75mm Cosina/Voigtlander f/1.8 Heliar Classic compared to a 73mm f/1.9 Hektor, if you get a chance. The Heliar is virtually a direct steal of the Hektor's three-group optical layout, which itself reduces the air/glass surfaces to six - but with 21st-century coatings. (Plus of course, being 75 years younger overall). The Heliar is even slightly wider than a 75 cron/lux, thus probably actually 73mm. And the Heliar is generally very contrasty, and resistant to flare of many types, although it still retains some Hektor characteristics - significant curvature of field and thus blurred corners down to f/8 or so. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And, thanks for the demo. Too bad John van Stelten at The Focal Point has retired. He used to be able to strip off damaged coatings (althought probably only single coat: Summarits and Summars, Rolleiflex Xenars and Planars) and recoat with modern coatings. I would guess the stripping-off is easy - but multiple passes for multicoating of a single "obsolete" element (they are usually batch-coated) is probably more expensive than an entire 90 Elmarit-M at this point. Edited June 10, 2020 by adan 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And, thanks for the demo. Too bad John van Stelten at The Focal Point has retired. He used to be able to strip off damaged coatings (althought probably only single coat: Summarits and Summars, Rolleiflex Xenars and Planars) and recoat with modern coatings. I would guess the stripping-off is easy - but multiple passes for multicoating of a single "obsolete" element (they are usually batch-coated) is probably more expensive than an entire 90 Elmarit-M at this point. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/310447-spot-the-difference/?do=findComment&comment=3991121'>More sharing options...
Ecar Posted June 10, 2020 Share #52 Posted June 10, 2020 Very interesting. I am actually surprised that a coating issue on the front element only would have such a significant effect. I wonder whether the other elements of the lens are clean - or if they suffered some damage as well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted June 10, 2020 Share #53 Posted June 10, 2020 1 hour ago, luigi bertolotti said: At least me too thought of a 90... I would have said something like a prewar and postwar Elmar... Funnily enough, Luigi, that was one of my thoughts, too (see post #91), but Paul said they were both M-mount lenses which scuppered that idea. As it happens I do have a 1933 9cm f4 Elmar which I've tried-out on the Monochrom and as long as there is no 'stray' light hitting the lens it is amazingly good for the period. As far as 'coatings', in general, are concerned and thinking, specifically, about the various Voigtlander offerings; this is, perhaps, a great illustration of the sort-of difference which could be expected between, say, a single-coated and a multi-coated design. Not quite so extreme, of course, but very educational for all that and gives us all a lot to think about when choosing an optic... Philip. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted June 10, 2020 Share #54 Posted June 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, Ecar said: I am actually surprised that a coating issue on the front element only would have such a significant effect. You should be surprised because he is mistaken. What he has forgotten is when he put the poorly coated lens on the camera, he turned around his baseball cap because it kept catching the hotshoe. Pete 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecar Posted June 10, 2020 Share #55 Posted June 10, 2020 1 hour ago, pgk said: Isn't it amazing just how much difference good coating can make. I wonder how good some of the pre-war designs would be if they were made today and a good set of coatings were applied? I have a 1933 Summar, which front element was so ugly that it wasn't too difficult for Peter Grisaffi to convince me that it would be much better after polishing and recoating. This was about 10 years ago. It's now a much *better* lens, I guess, but it has lost a lot of that fuzzy Summar *character". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted June 10, 2020 Share #56 Posted June 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, Ecar said: I have a 1933 Summar, which front element was so ugly that it wasn't too difficult for Peter Grisaffi to convince me that it would be much better after polishing and recoating. This was about 10 years ago. It's now a much *better* lens, I guess, but it has lost a lot of that fuzzy Summar *character". Malcolm Taylor recoated my Summitar. I'm very pleased with it (and his work, obvs). Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted June 10, 2020 Author Share #57 Posted June 10, 2020 53 minutes ago, Ecar said: Very interesting. I am actually surprised that a coating issue on the front element only would have such a significant effect. I wonder whether the other elements of the lens are clean - or if they suffered some damage as well? Just the front element as far as I can see. Not sure of the cause but I'll see what Leica say in due course. I will try to photograph the front element to show it but I have tried and it is not easy to do because its about the lighting and creating an appropriate reflection. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 10, 2020 Share #58 Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) My conclusion is that I'm going to check seriously my Elmarit M 90 🤥 I haven't used for at least 9 months or so...and it was perfect... but now I'm getting anxious about... 😁 Edited June 10, 2020 by luigi bertolotti Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommonego@gmail.com Posted June 10, 2020 Share #59 Posted June 10, 2020 I have a 1962 90 Elmarit M I bought for less than $100, the owner thought it had an internal scratch, the outside is messy too. Sent it to Youxin Yee and he went over it, the scratch was a hair, has been working well, but I always use the hood, cause I don't know what else to do with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayernfan Posted June 10, 2020 Share #60 Posted June 10, 2020 i prefer the second image. maybe i need to find some uncoated lenses 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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