Discounted Summarit

[earleygallery]

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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with the Summarit lenses at all. 

I certainly do recall comments when they first came out from some who assumed that they must be inferior, maybe even plastic lenses! Which is odd because they're not 'cheap' lenses in comparison to other makes! 

 

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[Ko.Fe.]

On 5/13/2020 at 5:13 AM, earleygallery said:

Nobody will be impressed when you pull out your new Summarit lens at the club meeting! 

  

14 hours ago, Mark T said:

I also have and enjoy Summarit lenses but whatever we feel about the Summarit lenses personally I agree with Earleygallery. Proof is in the (lack of) sales pudding. They would not be discontinuing lenses that are making them money.

 

6 hours ago, earleygallery said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with the Summarit lenses at all. 

I certainly do recall comments when they first came out from some who assumed that they must be inferior, maybe even plastic lenses! Which is odd because they're not 'cheap' lenses in comparison to other makes! 

 

So, if someone walks into this London club with Cosina M lens on Leica, they get expelled immediately?

Meanwhile, Cosina makes enough money to introduce new M lenses much often than Leica Camera AG, while their new 35 1.2 M are less expensive than Leica 35 2.4 and no problems with selling.

I think, Leica Camera AG lenses are very expensive for whatever reason and slow Summarits are not selling well due to more appealing completion at lower price range. 

Leica is loosing money even to China M lenses makers now, yet, is totally fine to have Leica labeled lenses in China made phones...

 

 

 

[earleygallery]

1 hour ago, Ko.Fe. said:

  

 

So, if someone walks into this London club with Cosina M lens on Leica, they get expelled immediately?

Meanwhile, Cosina makes enough money to introduce new M lenses much often than Leica Camera AG, while their new 35 1.2 M are less expensive than Leica 35 2.4 and no problems with selling.

I think, Leica Camera AG lenses are very expensive for whatever reason and slow Summarits are not selling well due to more appealing completion at lower price range. 

Leica is loosing money even to China M lenses makers now, yet, is totally fine to have Leica labeled lenses in China made phones...

 

 

 

I don't know which club you're referring to but as Groucho Marx said, I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member!

[Ko.Fe.]

57 minutes ago, earleygallery said:

I don't know which club you're referring to but as Groucho Marx said, I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member!

  

On 5/13/2020 at 5:13 AM, earleygallery said:

Nobody will be impressed when you pull out your new Summarit lens at the club meeting! 

I'm confused. You are not in the club, but know what is going on in where? How?

[earleygallery]

Please check your settings, sarcasim filter off.

[Guest]

Is there a sarcasm filter?

Seriously though,i love my 35mm f2.4 summarit ,its wonderful but they obviously are not selling enough of them.

Maybe leica are simply surrendering to cosina in the area of less expensive lenses?

If every "zeiss" and "voigtlander" lens were marketed as cosina lenses would they sell as well?  just a thought.

 

 

[Ko.Fe.]

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3 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

Is there a sarcasm filter?

Seriously though,i love my 35mm f2.4 summarit ,its wonderful but they obviously are not selling enough of them.

Maybe leica are simply surrendering to cosina in the area of less expensive lenses?

If every "zeiss" and "voigtlander" lens were marketed as cosina lenses would they sell as well?  just a thought.

 

 

Once it has no Leica word on it, it seems to be irrelevant. Cosina, ttartisans, 7artizans, those who buys lenses from them looking at price tag and reviews, pictures from lenses, but not at label, it seems. Cosina is owning  Viotlander brand to reuse original cameras, lenses names. And makes lenses on same factory for Zeiss. They used to make film cameras not only under Cosina, but for Nikon and else. So, it is not something new.

Personally, I care more for where lens is made, not for labels. Made in Japan is one of the best labels on itself.

[tomasis7]

On 5/14/2020 at 2:29 AM, Mark T said:

I also have and enjoy Summarit lenses but whatever we feel about the Summarit lenses personally I agree with Earleygallery. Proof is in the (lack of) sales pudding. They would not be discontinuing lenses that are making them money.

would be funny that Leica will discontinuing Summicron in next 5 years because they are "inferior" lenses. 

 

no , that kind of argument doesnt make sense. I bet new lenses are on way. 2.8 or 3.5 would be good when they get much smaller and sharper. If Leica marketing was smart enough to understand that cheapest lenses should take beat from "faster" lenses which seems a trend now. The Bokeh-generation  equals to the new Hipster .

[tomasis7]

On 5/13/2020 at 4:10 PM, Al Brown said:

Why is the title of the thread DISCOUNTED?

 

[pippy]

2 hours ago, tomasis7 said:

would be funny that Leica will discontinuing Summicron in next 5 years because they are "inferior" lenses....no , that kind of argument doesnt make sense. I bet new lenses are on way. 2.8 or 3.5 would be good when they get much smaller and sharper. If Leica marketing was smart enough to understand that cheapest lenses should take beat from "faster" lenses which seems a trend now. The Bokeh-generation  equals to the new Hipster .

I wonder what Leica have got planned? Hard to imagine a lens much smaller or sharper than, say, an Elmarit 28mm asph. A 35mm under f2 even smaller and sharper than the Summarit? Possibly. As far as 'Bokeh' is concerned; as it happens I spent my 'Boris Hour+' today wandering around with my 75 Summarit on my M-D and the bokeh when used wide-open-or-thereabouts is unarguably beautiful.

Sorry (for newcomers to the brand) to see them go from the list. Interested to see what - if anything - replaces them.

Philip.

Edited May 15, 2020 by pippy

[james.liam]

The SL2, M10R and M10M are the signs of things to come. A company with relatively modest resources must focus. 

New Tri-Elmars or Bi-Elmars? 

[Jeff S]

8 minutes ago, james.liam said:

The SL2, M10R and M10M are the signs of things to come. A company with relatively modest resources must focus. 

New Tri-Elmars or Bi-Elmars? 

Dr. Kaufmann said he’d like to see an updated MATE, more compatible with the SL system..

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2019/07/breakfast-with-dr-andreas-kaufmann/

Jeff

[lykaman]

What has happened to the discounted Lenses? Where can one locate them?        L

[james.liam]

They’ll probably end up with “Leica by Boris” on flEaBay. Or in one of his shops in his little empire. He’s the character who bought all the  R8/9 spare parts and was selling 75 Summarit f/2.5 lenses for a year after they were discontinued.

 

[luigi bertolotti]

7 hours ago, james.liam said:

The SL2, M10R and M10M are the signs of things to come. A company with relatively modest resources must focus. 

New Tri-Elmars or Bi-Elmars? 

😎...the right word for the right Company...😁

I think that they have evaluated that keeping alive a product line that, in the Leica marketplace, brougth definitely with it  the aura of "the cheap ones" (though being far from cheap in normal world) simply wasn't worth... if i remember correctly, Summarit line was an idea of the famed Mr. Lee... the CEO at M8 times, who was fired (or similar) after a no long tenure. If they'll have resources, maybe will intro compact lenses of no top aperture (under f2) in case reviving some other brand name (Summaron ? or Elmarit again...)

What really I don't understand is the abandoning of the SE 18... M users love WA , in general... are accustomed to ext.OVF for such focals... the WATE is a costly complex item... surely in the last 3-4 years they sold more SE18 than AT135... it had probably a good margin and the typical competitor (Distagon 18 ZM) is even no more listed...

 

[james.liam]

4 hours ago, luigi bertolotti said:

What really I don't understand is the abandoning of the SE 18... M users love WA , in general... are accustomed to ext.OVF for such focals... the WATE is a costly complex item... surely in the last 3-4 years they sold more SE18 than AT135... it had probably a good margin and the typical competitor (Distagon 18 ZM) is even no more listed...

 

It is unusual because those Elmar/SEMs were relatively new (<10 years). Only the 21 received the accolades it did, and never having used either the 18 or the 24, I have to go by what others say. Puts, Lloyd Chambers and others found them to be excellent optics but not on a par with the 21. They may not have had the 'reserve' the 21 (or the 50 APO) have for high MP sensors.

[pedaes]

25 minutes ago, james.liam said:

It is unusual because those Elmar/SEMs were relatively new (<10 years). Only the 21 received the accolades it did, and never having used either the 18 or the 24, I have to go by what others say. Puts, Lloyd Chambers and others found them to be excellent optics but not on a par with the 21. They may not have had the 'reserve' the 21 (or the 50 APO) have for high MP sensors.

I think the difference between the 18,21 and 24 is indistinguishable in practice. The 24mm was dropped because it didn't sell (Stephan Daniel said this yesterday in a LHSA organised Zoom event with Dr.K and himself). He also didn't dismiss the probability of a new MATE in the same session.

Edited May 16, 2020 by pedaes

[james.liam]

It's a shame about the 24. Shooting with film Nikons, I found the 20 too wide and the 28 not wide enough. I'd sold a 24/2 long ago because of its middling performance but the AOV seemed 'just right'. Recently replaced it with a Zeiss 2,8/25 (stellar lens, BTW).

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[tomasis7]

15 hours ago, pippy said:

I wonder what Leica have got planned? Hard to imagine a lens much smaller or sharper than, say, an Elmarit 28mm asph. A 35mm under f2 even smaller and sharper than the Summarit? Possibly. As far as 'Bokeh' is concerned; as it happens I spent my 'Boris Hour+' today wandering around with my 75 Summarit on my M-D and the bokeh when used wide-open-or-thereabouts is unarguably beautiful.

Sorry (for newcomers to the brand) to see them go from the list. Interested to see what - if anything - replaces them.

Philip.

i have 50 summarit and it is great to use. I can see point that it is slightly worse for handling compared to Summicron when you focus forward and back. Lack of thicker brass inside? However, lenses are expensive so new users are reading reviews and seeing a flaw then it is enough to scare potential buyers away. Optically, it is nothing wrong. 

For me, carrying 90/4, 24/4 and 50/2 would be perfect as the kit wont weight much and I get pictures exactly i want from the kit. 

Beside all that above, it might be that Leica is expanding the portfolio and I would be not surprised that Leica start neglect M-user base more and more. Is it why Erwin Putz got fed and quit? Huawei smartphone and SL2 give $$$ income. I recently bought BMW e91 with manual gearbox and I really love the mechanical response in steering and shifting gear. You would refer the old car to Leica MP body. Nowadays BMW users complain over the lack of joy in electric steering and auto. Perhaps it is same consumer oriented auto focus and auto mode (SL2 etc)

[Peters]

On 5/15/2020 at 12:27 AM, Ko.Fe. said:

  

 

So, if someone walks into this London club with Cosina M lens on Leica, they get expelled immediately?

Meanwhile, Cosina makes enough money to introduce new M lenses much often than Leica Camera AG, while their new 35 1.2 M are less expensive than Leica 35 2.4 and no problems with selling.

I think, Leica Camera AG lenses are very expensive for whatever reason and slow Summarits are not selling well due to more appealing completion at lower price range. 

Leica is loosing money even to China M lenses makers now, yet, is totally fine to have Leica labeled lenses in China made phones...

 

 

 

Pity Cosina / Zeiss don't fill out their lens line. Could do with a little updating (especially to stop the corner performance issues with their wider lenses) and bring out a few more 1.4 primes. I know Voigtlander has a lovely line of new vintage and optically very good lenses, but the Zeiss ZM lenses are just fabulous. 28 f1.4 or f2 , smaller 35 f1.4 and a 90 f2 would be interesting.