SL2 with M lenses, the pros and cons?

[Photoworks]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

2 hours ago, chris_tribble said:

Does anyone have experience of infinity focusing issues on the SL2?  I had a series of problems with the SL1 and lenses like the 28 Summicron Asph where it focused past infinity.  Same with the 50 summilux Asph.  If this wasn't an issue with the SL2 I might be tempted as it would make the 135 A-T a much more useful lens - also the 90 Macro with the adapter.  It works OK on the M10, but it's still a drag using the EVF.  An SL2 for when i needed longer lenses or high resolution (if it's ok with the WATE or the 28 cron) + the M10s for every day would be interesting.  I'd then stick with the M10's for a good long time as I still haven't found a reason for moving on from them - and I'm not sure how tempting an M11 would be...

Every adapter I have tried goes part infinity.

Sometime I will use it the Gabale adapter, it is a poor man's correction, jut turn the ring a little and set it to infinity. 
You will loose the Lens corrections from the cameras, only the 6bit Leica adapter can give you that.

on the 35mm FLE many corrections are applied , vignetting, color shift in the corners, CA and distortion. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[chris_tribble]

Thanks - interesting, but not a solution for the SL2 I fear...

[BernardC]

5 hours ago, chris_tribble said:

Thanks - interesting, but not a solution for the SL2 I fear...

The problem, such as it is, is by design. All adapters are a little bit short, which means that they focus past infinity. This is done so that they will always reach infinity, even if a lens is mis-adjusted, and even if high temperatures have caused too much expansion (which can happen with super-telephoto lenses).

The only exceptions are expensive adapters marketed to the cine crowd, which can be adjusted using shims, or a built-in adjustment screw. Even then you need to re-adjust them at extreme temperatures.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

2 hours ago, BernardC said:

The problem, such as it is, is by design. All adapters are a little bit short, which means that they focus past infinity. This is done so that they will always reach infinity, even if a lens is mis-adjusted, and even if high temperatures have caused too much expansion (which can happen with super-telephoto lenses).

The only exceptions are expensive adapters marketed to the cine crowd, which can be adjusted using shims, or a built-in adjustment screw. Even then you need to re-adjust them at extreme temperatures.

For the extraordinary amount Leica charge this adjustability should have been included.

Gordon

[gcreglia]

I'm also having infinity focusing issues on the SL2 with the Leica Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 ASPH lens. I purchased a Haoge Macro Focus Lens Mount Adapter for Leica M LM to see if I can compensate for the infinity focusing issues on the SL2. I will report back my findings to the forum.

Aligning the middle of the infinity symbol on the line to the right of f/1.4 (when the lens is facing away from you) at f/8 provides edge to edge sharpness and proper depth of field in my landscape images using the Leica Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 ASPH lens on the Leica SL.

Edited May 13, 2020 by gcreglia

[BernardC]

Maybe the number of people who use scale-focus with M lenses on L-Mount cameras is bigger than expected.

Are you all using this for infinity only, or do you also scale-focus at closer distances? Any adjustment will be the same throughout the focus scale, so if infinity is 0.2mm from the infinity mark, the same will be true for 10m, 5m, 1m, 0.7m, etc.

Someone should ask Leica if they can supply shims. The M-adapter-L looks like it can be dismantled.

Personally, I would make a mental note that "infinity focus" is slightly shy of the infinity stop. The actual amount is easy to figure-out, when the Moon is out.

[Sjz]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I am gently toying with the idea of buying a MM9 / M 240 / 246 / 262 and so I find myself toying with the idea of buying a wide angle M lens which would work so well on my SL2 (and CL) that I will not even contemplate buying the SL 21mm or 24mm when they are released later this year.  (Whatever so means).

i have the focal ranges pretty much covered by the Leica zooms and I have the SL 35mm Summicron.

i am thinking either of the 21mm or 24mm Summilux in M mount.

i find I am taking fewer landscapes and more town / city / street photos and I recognise that learning how to use 21 would be very challenging.

Advice would be very welcome - including ‘that’s a bad idea, forget it”.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Sjz

[Rob L]

Get the new Cosina Voigtlander 21 1.4 Nocton.

[Sjz]

9 hours ago, Rob L said:

Get the new Cosina Voigtlander 21 1.4 Nocton.

Thank you, I never thought of that one, I had my Leica blinkers on 🙂

 

[tom.w.bn]

Am 12.5.2020 um 10:57 schrieb Stuart Richardson:

I have found that the smearing is certainly better on the SL2 than on non Leica cameras, such as the Panasonic S series or even worse, the Sony mirrorless cameras. That said, it is not fully mitigated. In most cases and most longer lenses, you will not notice it too badly. The 35mm Summilux FLE does pretty well, though it is a wider, but the smearing is quite noticeable wide open, and improves fairly rapidly. I have not tried the 50mm Summilux ASPH, as my one native SL lens is the 50mm Summicron, which is completely outstanding. I do not see harshness, only very high microcontrast. There are few if any veils between you and the image. This mean that your overall image workflow might need to pull back a bit on contrast or vibrance, and especially clarity. It's not the lens's fault that it is doing a better job at accurately projecting light on the sensor. If you use Lightroom, Adobe's default sharpening tends to be directed at cameras and lenses that are not as sharp as Leica's tend to be, so best to increase the masking substantially and lower the detail and radius sliders, and then choose a sharpness percentage from there.

 

I have never seen any form of smearing on the Panasonic S1 so far in contrast to a Sony camera I once used. Compared shots with 18mm, 24mm and 28mm (the wide angels I have) to older shots I have from M9 and M240 with these lenses. No difference in the edges at the normal landscape apertures from 5.6 and above. Alle the other lenses I use wide open very often and they work so well like on an M240 (just with a much better sensor).

[Stuart Richardson]

That is interesting. Which particular lenses are you using? I did a battery of tests at one point with my M10 and S1, and a friend's borrowed SL version one. I found that the performance with M lenses was consistently best on the M10, then a bit worse on the SL and then quite a bit worse on the S1. I made the photos as a test just photographing out the window of my studio and running through the aperture scales. I will say, however, that the S1 is much better than the Sony's, but it still has quite a bit of blur in the edges compared to the M10 especially. I could post some pictures, but I have to attend to work with a client shortly, so I cannot do it for awhile.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Stuart Richardson

[tom.w.bn]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Stuart Richardson:

That is interesting. Which particular lenses are you using? I did a battery of tests at one point with my M10 and S1, and a friend's borrowed SL version one. I found that the performance with M lenses was consistently best on the M10, then a bit worse on the SL and then quite a bit worse on the S1. I made the photos as a test just photographing out the window of my studio and running through the aperture scales. I will say, however, that the S1 is much better than the Sony's, but it still has quite a bit of blur in the edges compared to the M10 especially. I could post some pictures, but I have to attend to work with a client shortly, so I cannot do it for awhile.

I have the following wideangle lenses: Super Elmar M 18, Elmarit-M 2.8/24 ASPH, Elmarit-M 2.8/28 ASPH.

The 18mm shows some unsharpness in the edges with the Panasonic S1, but when I look at images from that lens with an M camera I can see that even there the lens is not a top edge performer --> Not so much worse.  

So far I don't see an edge problem with the 24 and 28.

When I tried a Sony A7II with the 24 and 28 back then it was a horrible smearing mess. You did not need to go to 100% view in post processing to see it. The Panasonic is a completely different world. But it depends a lot on your personal quality expectations. I'm a pixel peeper at times but I'm still content with the quality of the M-lenses on the S1....

[gcreglia]

I received my Kipon Leica M Mount Lens to Leica SL adapter today, and I can confirm the Leica Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 ASPH lens hits infinity with the adapter on the Leica SL2.

[gcreglia]

I'm posting the image to illustrate the edge to edge sharpness and depth of field using the Leica Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 ASPH lens at f8 infinity, Kipon Leica M Mount Lens to Leica SL adapter, and Leica SL2.

It's a shame that I have to purchase a third-party adapter for the Leica SL2 to accomplish the same focusing technique I've grown accustomed to on the Leica M10.

With that said, the Leica SL2 loves the Leica Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 ASPH lens.  I'm impressed with the image quality from the combo!

Edited May 19, 2020 by gcreglia

[ahl]

I sold my M 240 body to purchase an SL2 to use with my M lenses. Mainly to get the advantage of IBIS as I am over 70 and realised my handholding was not as good as it used to be.

I have not found any problems at all with my new setup even with the WATE. The focusing of wide aperture lenses ( including the Noctilux) has become much more reliable. The weight of the outfit is much easier to manage when out and about and the M lenses handle really well on the SL2. The extra weight of the body sits nicely in the hand with smaller lenses and balances really well with the larger ones. The total size of body + lens is not very intrusive for street photography. I have not noticed any Infinity focusing issues.

I have lost the advantage of full waterproofing but manage really well with improvised covers made from hotel shower caps with a hole cut in them for the lens hood to pop out from , held by a rubber band around it. I have a few in the pocket of my waterproof. 

If you try the SL2 with M lenses I doubt if you will regret it and can recommend the change without reservations. I used M bodies for decades from M2 all the way up the upgrades to M240 but find, rather surprisingly,  I have not missed them at all.

[chris_tribble]

Well - I've just taken the plunge with a mint SL2 (from the ever excellent Ffordes) + the Leica M-L adapter and the Sigma MC-21 Canon EFL adapter.

The game plan has been to ditch my Canon bodies (5D4/5D3) and most lenses and standardise on M bodies for the majority uses + SL2 for use mainly with WATE / 90 Macro-Elmar and Apo-Telyt 135 AND keep at least one good telephoto (Canon L 70-200 f2.8 mk3) for the occasions that I need it.  If I'm travelling for an assignment I'll then just be able to take one M  body and the lenses I need + the SL2 + a long AF telephoto.  In the past I've needed 2 M bodies + a Canon body + long telephoto.

My experience after day 1 (very wet in Cumbria at the moment) is that the SL2 is a transformed beast compared with the SL1.  It's better in the hand IMHO, has better ergonomics, and is a real pleasure to work with across all the M lenses I have.  IBIS means that lenses like the A-T 135 f4 are incredibly easy to work with, and the WATE comes into its own on an SLR body.  I'm sure there will be some infinity focus issues to deal with, but overall, I'm very very pleased with what I'm getting so dar (and the MC-21 works really well in single shot AF mode with Canon lenses - which is what I need for my purposes).

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited June 19, 2020 by chris_tribble

[john1970]

I have only M mount lenses and the SL2 + Leica L-M adapter is my go to color digital camera.  On to answering your question...

Pros:

1) IBIS for stabilized hand held shots

2) Exceptionally sharp EVF that with magnification makes manual focusing the M lenses easy to do.

3) Well balanced in the hand and much lighter than L glass combinations

4) SL2 + Leica L-M adapter is significantly less costly than M10-P + EVF

Cons:

1) Not as lightweight or as stealth as a M10-P + M glass combination.   Probably useful to consider if you do a lot of street photography.and carry the equipment all day.  

2) Maybe sharper images in the far corners than the SL2 + M glass combination.   As you can see from above posts there is not complete consensus.  In this regard, the SL2 is supposedly much better than the SL.

Lastly, if Leica were to release a M mount camera with a high-res EVF in the future I would strongly consider that as well.   It would be like the SL2, but even lighter in weight to carry.  

 

 

 

[ravinj]

On 6/16/2020 at 6:38 AM, ahl said:

I sold my M 240 body to purchase an SL2 to use with my M lenses. Mainly to get the advantage of IBIS as I am over 70 and realised my handholding was not as good as it used to be.

I have not found any problems at all with my new setup even with the WATE. The focusing of wide aperture lenses ( including the Noctilux) has become much more reliable. The weight of the outfit is much easier to manage when out and about and the M lenses handle really well on the SL2. The extra weight of the body sits nicely in the hand with smaller lenses and balances really well with the larger ones. The total size of body + lens is not very intrusive for street photography. I have not noticed any Infinity focusing issues.

I have lost the advantage of full waterproofing but manage really well with improvised covers made from hotel shower caps with a hole cut in them for the lens hood to pop out from , held by a rubber band around it. I have a few in the pocket of my waterproof. 

If you try the SL2 with M lenses I doubt if you will regret it and can recommend the change without reservations. I used M bodies for decades from M2 all the way up the upgrades to M240 but find, rather surprisingly,  I have not missed them at all.

"I have not found any problems at all with my new setup even with the WATE" --> WATE being a retrofocal design is well behaved on most mirrorless cameras. Not to mention great contrast and colors.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[ravinj]

On 5/17/2020 at 9:50 AM, Sjz said:

I am gently toying with the idea of buying a MM9 / M 240 / 246 / 262 and so I find myself toying with the idea of buying a wide angle M lens which would work so well on my SL2 (and CL) that I will not even contemplate buying the SL 21mm or 24mm when they are released later this year.  (Whatever so means).

i have the focal ranges pretty much covered by the Leica zooms and I have the SL 35mm Summicron.

i am thinking either of the 21mm or 24mm Summilux in M mount.

i find I am taking fewer landscapes and more town / city / street photos and I recognise that learning how to use 21 would be very challenging.

Advice would be very welcome - including ‘that’s a bad idea, forget it”.

If you can live with F4, WATE (16-18-21) is outstanding on both M bodies and most mirrorless cameras. You can get used copies for a reasonable price if you are patient. 

[ravinj]

On 5/12/2020 at 6:44 AM, chris_tribble said:

Does anyone have experience of infinity focusing issues on the SL2?  I had a series of problems with the SL1 and lenses like the 28 Summicron Asph where it focused past infinity.  Same with the 50 summilux Asph.  If this wasn't an issue with the SL2 I might be tempted as it would make the 135 A-T a much more useful lens - also the 90 Macro with the adapter.  It works OK on the M10, but it's still a drag using the EVF.  An SL2 for when i needed longer lenses or high resolution (if it's ok with the WATE or the 28 cron) + the M10s for every day would be interesting.  I'd then stick with the M10's for a good long time as I still haven't found a reason for moving on from them - and I'm not sure how tempting an M11 would be...

I am sure your infinity focus issue had nothing to do with the camera and mostly related to the adapter. With my Leica M to L adapter, I see no issues with Zeiss ZM 35 F1.4, Summulix 35 FLE and 90 Elmar M F4.