SL2 with M lenses, the pros and cons?

[ravinj]

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On 5/12/2020 at 9:04 AM, Photoworks said:

Every adapter I have tried goes part infinity.

Sometime I will use it the Gabale adapter, it is a poor man's correction, jut turn the ring a little and set it to infinity. 
You will loose the Lens corrections from the cameras, only the 6bit Leica adapter can give you that.

on the 35mm FLE many corrections are applied , vignetting, color shift in the corners, CA and distortion. 

"You will loose the Lens corrections from the cameras, only the 6bit Leica adapter can give you that." --> This is not correct. You can manually select lens profile from the menu. 

 

"Every adapter I have tried goes part infinity"  -> How about the Leica M to L adapter?

Edited June 20, 2020 by ravinj

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, ravinj said:

"You will loose the Lens corrections from the cameras, only the 6bit Leica adapter can give you that." --> This is not correct. You can manually select lens profile from the menu. 

 

"Every adapter I have tried goes part infinity"  -> How about the Leica M to L adapter?

In my experience you can select a lens to IBIS working again, all the other corrections, vignetting and distortion , are not corrected anyway.

Not sure anything changes in V2.0 firmware 

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[ravinj]

11 hours ago, Photoworks said:

In my experience you can select a lens to IBIS working again, all the other corrections, vignetting and distortion , are not corrected anyway.

Not sure anything changes in V2.0 firmware 

Profile corrections are always applied for the selected lens. All 6-bit coding does it to auto select the lens profile for a 6-bit coded lens if it is set to Auto in the menu. This is assuming the lens too is 6-bit coded, else you need to select the profile manually. In other words, just the Leica M to L adapter is not going to do anything automatically unless the lens too is 6-bit coded.

This is same behavior as in M240 and M10. If in doubt, email Leica and ask them - their answer will be same as what I said. IBIS if it is enabled, is applied based on the lens FL in the selected profile. Obviously, Ms do not have IBIS.

This is a poor implementation by Leica.

A better way would be for Leica to update firmware so that one can select just the focal length for IBIS. In the current implementation, it always applies lens profile corrections even if you just want to make use of IBIS since one must select the M or R lens in the profile. This is more of an issue when an M lens profile is selected, esp for wide angle lenses. Less of an issue for longer FLs as the corrections required are less anyway. 

Edited June 20, 2020 by ravinj

[Photoworks]

20 hours ago, Photoworks said:

In my experience you can select a lens to IBIS working again, all the other corrections, vignetting and distortion , are not corrected anyway.

Not sure anything changes in V2.0 firmware 

Here are images with Leica 6bit adapter with Noctilux 50mm and a 3rd party adapter.

 

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you can see the benefit that the SL has with the 6bit adapter from Leica.

this are out of camera JPG's

[o2mpx]

One annoyance with the M adapter is the aperture is only estimated. Can’t remember if the shutter speed is actual or also estimated. 
 

With the MATE or WATE, even if 6 bit coded, manual selection of which focal length used is still required for lens profiles since the adapter doesn’t transmit which of the 3 focal length might have been selected. 
 

Presumably despite all these challenges, still worth the application of lens correction in camera  

 

[ravinj]

"you can see the benefit that the SL has with the 6bit adapter from Leica."

Nothing to do with adapter. You can achieve the same result by selecting the right lens profile and a $20 adapter.

Edited June 22, 2020 by ravinj

[ravinj]

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1 minute ago, o2mpx said:

One annoyance with the M adapter is the aperture is only estimated. Can’t remember if the shutter speed is actual or also estimated. 
 

With the MATE or WATE, even if 6 bit coded, manual selection of which focal length used is still required for lens profiles since the adapter doesn’t transmit which of the 3 focal length might have been selected. 
 

Presumably despite all these challenges, still worth the application of lens correction in camera  

 

WATE is "well behaved" as is, so no major harm done even if you forget to change the FL. Haven't used the MATE, so hard to say how strong the corrections are.

[ahl]

I did try other adapters before settling on the Leica one but they all proved troublesome: they were too tight on the lens or the body or exhibited a bit of play when in use.

Having spent a large amount on the best Leica offers I found it impossible to make do with a less than a perfect fit. One cheap adapter was extremely difficult to get off the body and I would have hated to have to send it off to Leitz for repair having just got it. The actual Leica adapter is a fantastic fit and just works seamlessly without any fuss.

I have found the estimated aperture close enough to be useful and the body will show the actual shutter speed used in all the modes. I tend to use the camera in A mode set the aperture first on the lens and then look at the shutter speed offered and adjust the iso if required but often I have been happy with the auto iso having set reasonably conservative limits. Most of my lenses are used near the fully open aperture or around f8-11 when doing landscapes. I actually prefer manual focusing even for street photography. I have the rubber focusing knob on all the lenses that do not have their own and have them all set at 2 m at 6 o'clock as my favourite starting point. I have another autofocus camera system for long lenses but am not always happy with the focus point:  great with BIF and really long telephoto shots but fiddly and distracting to choose the autofocus point by fiddling with a joystick.

 

[budjames]

I own the M10 and the SL2. Using the SL2 and M-adpater, I can finally nail focus with my Noctilux 50mm 0.95. The extra resolution is nice to great flexibility with cropping.

That said, I still like the M lens on my M10 for the zen-like approach to photography.

The Leica Vario Elmarit 24-90 lens is amazingly sharp and flexible. A perfect match for the SL2 although this set up weighs a ton and not something that I would take on a travel vacation.

My travel kit is the M10, 35 Summilux and 50mm APO Summicron along with my iPhone 11.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

[:hinting image]

M-mount lenses on SL2:

Smaller, lighter, and can you use on My and any other mirrorless even if you let go of the L-mount camera later.

5mp 120hz EVF with peaking to nail focus easy.

5k30P or 4k60p video with Leica glass if you care about video.

187 mp multishot mode in M glass, corrected.

Not as sharp, as well corrected on the 47mp sensor. You will see all the weakness of the M-lenses on the SL2. The sensor is unforgiving.

Helicoid adaptor allow for closeup photography on all M lenses, and anything that can adapt to M-mount

If the M-mount lenses you have is coded or can be coded, then auto/manual assignment of lens profile give you distortion, vignetting and colour cast correction on the raw file as well as IBIS for slower shutter speed. Distortion correction is on raw metadata for developer to interpret, but vignetting and colour cast corrections are baked in the the raw.

Older Leica Screw mount and non-leica M-mount lens need to be assigned with similar focal length M-lens profile to get IBIS working, but it is coupled with the other corrections that may not be compatible with these lenses.

No autofocus (is a good thing for us who enjoys to take photographs MF)

Heavier and Larger camera body than M cameras, Sony alphas or Sigma FP.

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Edited July 4, 2020 by :hinting image
Typo

[chris_tribble]

Continuing with this thread, I was out today with the 135 A-T on the SL2.  IBIS and the EVF make this such a good, light telephoto lens for landscape work.  See below:

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100% crop

I'm happily impressed by sharpness and resolution across the frame.  The WATE or 28 summicron + either the M 90 macro Elmar or the 135 A-T + the SL2 make a great combination for walking / travelling light

[gcreglia]

I wanted to share the following link with the group:

 

[Massimike]

On 6/16/2020 at 12:38 PM, ahl said:

I sold my M 240 body to purchase an SL2 to use with my M lenses. Mainly to get the advantage of IBIS as I am over 70 and realised my handholding was not as good as it used to be.

I have not found any problems at all with my new setup even with the WATE. The focusing of wide aperture lenses ( including the Noctilux) has become much more reliable. The weight of the outfit is much easier to manage when out and about and the M lenses handle really well on the SL2. The extra weight of the body sits nicely in the hand with smaller lenses and balances really well with the larger ones. The total size of body + lens is not very intrusive for street photography. I have not noticed any Infinity focusing issues.

I have lost the advantage of full waterproofing but manage really well with improvised covers made from hotel shower caps with a hole cut in them for the lens hood to pop out from , held by a rubber band around it. I have a few in the pocket of my waterproof. 

If you try the SL2 with M lenses I doubt if you will regret it and can recommend the change without reservations. I used M bodies for decades from M2 all the way up the upgrades to M240 but find, rather surprisingly,  I have not missed them at all.

You have done exactly what I mean to do. I have M240 and I wish to sell it to trade for the SL2 with Leica M/L adapter. I have the summi 28 asph and I wish this is the right combo for street shooting. I would like to have more control over my exposure and I feel frustrated using the live view and the lag you have on the shutter release. 
Then if in the future I want to use with L lenses I still can decide later on. 
 

[IkarusJohn]

I have the SL, rather than the SL2.  I’m not sure which “major” M lenses the OP has, but the performance of M lenses on the SL can be a little “variable”.  You need to try them out.

My intention with the SL was to use it as an EVF platform for M lenses.  I then got drawn into the SL lenses - they really are very good.    These days, I really only use the larger M lenses on the SL, with the Leica M-L adapter.  They are more compact that the SL lenses, and they do have more character.  Here is my experience:

21 Summilux-M ASPH - nicely balanced, better framing (obviously), built in horizon really useful.  Haven’t used this combination much since I got the fabulous SL 16-35 zoom.  I haven’t noticed the smearing Stuart refers to.  I will check.

28 Summilux-M ASPH - actually marginally better on the SL than on the M. See Jono Slack’s review.  I prefer this lens on my M cameras as it’s a bit small on the SL.

50 Noctilux-M 0.95 - better on the SL in most respects.  Better balanced, way more compact than the 50 Summilux-SL, and no purple fringing that I’ve detected.  The Noctilux is way better on the SL than on the M10-D; still pretty good on the Monochrom.  Magnification helps if you struggle to focus.

75 Summilux-M - excellent on the SL.  Dreamy wide open, tack sharp stopped down.  I know Peter Karbe doesn’t like this lens (I don’t have the 75 Noctilux-M 1.25, but I’m sure it’s fantastic), but I can see why it is the lens Mandler was most proud of.  Excellent on the SL, and provides an interesting alternative to the brilliant 75 Summicron-SL.

If there are particular lenses at specific distances and apertures you’d like tested, let me know; unfortunately that might be of limited use as I don’t have an SL2.

As to focusing, I expect focus peaking on the SL2 will be as good as on the SL or any other EVF camera, that is to say useless.  With practice, I found just relying on the EVF with no aids enough.  Where necessary, magnification is better.

[Massimike]

9 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

I have the SL, rather than the SL2.  I’m not sure which “major” M lenses the OP has, but the performance of M lenses on the SL can be a little “variable”.  You need to try them out.

My intention with the SL was to use it as an EVF platform for M lenses.  I then got drawn into the SL lenses - they really are very good.    These days, I really only use the larger M lenses on the SL, with the Leica M-L adapter.  They are more compact that the SL lenses, and they do have more character.  Here is my experience:

21 Summilux-M ASPH - nicely balanced, better framing (obviously), built in horizon really useful.  Haven’t used this combination much since I got the fabulous SL 16-35 zoom.  I haven’t noticed the smearing Stuart refers to.  I will check.

28 Summilux-M ASPH - actually marginally better on the SL than on the M. See Jono Slack’s review.  I prefer this lens on my M cameras as it’s a bit small on the SL.

50 Noctilux-M 0.95 - better on the SL in most respects.  Better balanced, way more compact than the 50 Summilux-SL, and no purple fringing that I’ve detected.  The Noctilux is way better on the SL than on the M10-D; still pretty good on the Monochrom.  Magnification helps if you struggle to focus.

75 Summilux-M - excellent on the SL.  Dreamy wide open, tack sharp stopped down.  I know Peter Karbe doesn’t like this lens (I don’t have the 75 Noctilux-M 1.25, but I’m sure it’s fantastic), but I can see why it is the lens Mandler was most proud of.  Excellent on the SL, and provides an interesting alternative to the brilliant 75 Summicron-SL.

If there are particular lenses at specific distances and apertures you’d like tested, let me know; unfortunately that might be of limited use as I don’t have an SL2.

As to focusing, I expect focus peaking on the SL2 will be as good as on the SL or any other EVF camera, that is to say useless.  With practice, I found just relying on the EVF with no aids enough.  Where necessary, magnification is better.

Thanks mate for the suggestions. 

[oka]

My biggest issue with M glasses on SL(2) is focusing.

When shooting fast lenses wide open EVF is pleasure to work with - but when using slow lenses, stopped down or wide angle lenses, focusing with EVF is slower and harder compared to RF

New SL2 with improved EVF resolution, the issue is not bad as with the original SL but something you should be aware with. There is huge difference trying to focus 50mm Noct or 21mm Summilux with EVF wide open.

Lastly, weight and size difference to M is quite large in practice. With SL you need to have also bigger bag and total weight difference comparing the set to M is quite noticeable. Personally I never use SL2 + M glass combination on my free time, only on paid commissions.

[IkarusJohn]

22 hours ago, oka said:

My biggest issue with M glasses on SL(2) is focusing.

When shooting fast lenses wide open EVF is pleasure to work with - but when using slow lenses, stopped down or wide angle lenses, focusing with EVF is slower and harder compared to RF....

This is often overlooked.

I try ro achieve the best plane of focus on the subject, regardless of focal length and aperture. With a lens like the 28 Summaron, the EVF is not the best option.  You’re reduced to hyperfocal settings.  It works, but it’s not as accruate or satisfying as the rangefinder. 

[leicamr]

When I was younger I could easily focus M and R lenses on film camera's. When I started using an M8 and DMR I struggled to achieve accurate focussing, and rarely used  maximum apertures just to improve my chances. Since using a CL and SL, the EVF now allows my 60 year old eyes to focus any M or R lens accurately using maximum apertures. I have been drawn into SL lenses. It appears that size matters as the optical quality, even at maximum aperture is stunning.

If I want to travel light, I use the CL or SL with M or R lenses.

[2M6TTLs]

How does the SL body know the aperture set on an M lens, through the mechanical linkage or only electronic? Can it determine this with non-coded lenses? because that's what I've got. 

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[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, 2M6TTLs said:

How does the SL body know the aperture set on an M lens, through the mechanical linkage or only electronic? Can it determine this with non-coded lenses? because that's what I've got. 

All M lenses have an approximated f-stop in metadata. The camera calculates the closest guess based on exposure.

In my experience it is early correct.