eev776 Posted April 16, 2020 Share #1 Posted April 16, 2020 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Not sharp? Recently I got a brand new SUMMICRON-M 35mm f/2 ASPH. Silver 11674. Made in 2018. I use it on my CL (Made in 2019) and it’s not sharp as I thought it would be, especially at wide open. I’m kind of disappointed, thinking maybe I’m doing something wrong, because some shots coming out sharp, basically sharpness of this lens is not constant. Is it maybe because it’s on CL? For example I’m comparing it with my APO-Summicron-M 90mm or Summilux-M 50mm, both lenses at wide open or one more f stop perform excellent. I was shooting Summicron M 35mm at day time handheld on the street, ISO100, Shutter 1/1000, f2 - most of images are not sharp. Took a test with tripod indoors, f2 is still not sharp as other Leica M lenses. Anybody has the same issues? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited April 16, 2020 by eev776 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/308604-not-sharp-new-summicron-m-35mm-f2-asph-silver-11674-on-cl/?do=findComment&comment=3954803'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 Hi eev776, Take a look here Not Sharp! New SUMMICRON-M 35mm f/2 ASPH. Silver 11674 on CL.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted April 16, 2020 Share #2 Posted April 16, 2020 Can you share some examples with your sharp lenses used as a reference? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 16, 2020 Share #3 Posted April 16, 2020 The lettering on the lens looks pretty sharp to me. Aren't you confusing "sharpness" (whatever that may be) with contrast? This is an old design lens and provides a more more smooth and less clinical rendering -to my eye more pleasing- than newer examples, especially modern APO designs, the Summilux 50 is also APO, despite not being marked as such. Especially the falloff into OOF rendering is markedly different. Using the Summicron 35 on the CL is only an advantage as it cuts off the weaker corners. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommonego@gmail.com Posted April 16, 2020 Share #4 Posted April 16, 2020 It looks to me you have a tiny bit of camera shake. Let you setup settle down and use FOTOS to trigger the camera. Also 2 different levels of the camera at f2 could throw off your focus, try some real world photos. Though that is difficult these days. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted April 16, 2020 Share #5 Posted April 16, 2020 I would not call the Summicron 35 asph. an old design, although it has been around for quite some time now. If your lens is from 2018, it is already the second iteration of that lens, which was fine-tuned somewhat to cooperate better with digital cameras. Both iterations of that lens represent the modern Leica lens look, rendering a very sharp and contrasty image with lively colors. The latest APO lenses may be even more pronounced in that regard, but the Summicron 35 asph. is no slouch by any means. My own sample is the first iteration and is tack sharp (with the extreme corners being a little weaker at full aperture, as jaap has pointed out. But you should not see those when using this lens on the CL). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted April 16, 2020 Share #6 Posted April 16, 2020 Hard to help you if you don't show your pics. Where did you see that softness if i may ask? At the centre of the frame or at the corners? How did you focus? Did you try focus magnification? My 35/2 asph v1 is not my sharper 35 at f/2 on the CL but it is close. Matches very well my 50/1.4 asph and 90/2 apo. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eev776 Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share #7 Posted April 17, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 17 hours ago, andybarton said: Can you share some examples with your sharp lenses used as a reference? I will share some images later. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eev776 Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share #8 Posted April 17, 2020 14 hours ago, tommonego@gmail.com said: It looks to me you have a tiny bit of camera shake. Let you setup settle down and use FOTOS to trigger the camera. Also 2 different levels of the camera at f2 could throw off your focus, try some real world photos. Though that is difficult these days. It feels like a camera shake, maybe I’m not use to it yet small lens on a small camera 📷 that is why it happens. But I’m not 100% happy with what I see shot with tripod at f2. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eev776 Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share #9 Posted April 17, 2020 14 hours ago, jaapv said: The lettering on the lens looks pretty sharp to me. Aren't you confusing "sharpness" (whatever that may be) with contrast? This is an old design lens and provides a more more smooth and less clinical rendering -to my eye more pleasing- than newer examples, especially modern APO designs, the Summilux 50 is also APO, despite not being marked as such. Especially the falloff into OOF rendering is markedly different. Using the Summicron 35 on the CL is only an advantage as it cuts off the weaker corners. Great point about fall off corners! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eev776 Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share #10 Posted April 17, 2020 14 hours ago, wizard said: I would not call the Summicron 35 asph. an old design, although it has been around for quite some time now. If your lens is from 2018, it is already the second iteration of that lens, which was fine-tuned somewhat to cooperate better with digital cameras. Both iterations of that lens represent the modern Leica lens look, rendering a very sharp and contrasty image with lively colors. The latest APO lenses may be even more pronounced in that regard, but the Summicron 35 asph. is no slouch by any means. My own sample is the first iteration and is tack sharp (with the extreme corners being a little weaker at full aperture, as jaap has pointed out. But you should not see those when using this lens on the CL). I must say I really enjoy contrast and color rendering of this lens. Very noticeable right from my first shots. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eev776 Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share #11 Posted April 17, 2020 8 hours ago, lct said: Hard to help you if you don't show your pics. Where did you see that softness if i may ask? At the centre of the frame or at the corners? How did you focus? Did you try focus magnification? My 35/2 asph v1 is not my sharper 35 at f/2 on the CL but it is close. Matches very well my 50/1.4 asph and 90/2 apo. It was out of focus in the center few times. I use focus magnification with color peaking set to low. For daytime ISO 100, f2, shutter 1/1000, should dot sharp, but sometimes it’s not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted April 17, 2020 Share #12 Posted April 17, 2020 (edited) Let's go to the MTF charts (Leica's own): Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Personally, I always found the 35 Summicron non-ASPH (v.4) to have a bit better raw resolution (not the same as MTF) at the center, compared to the ASPH. Over multiple samples of each. However the ASPH does have higher contrast (slightly) and holds up farther into the corners. Less coma/astigmatism - although not coma-free: note the divergent sagittal (solid) and tangential (dashed) lines, compared to the tighter spacing for the 90 and 50. BTW, astigmatism can look like camera shake (smeared in one direction ||| but not the other —). Let's face it, when one pays $900-1400 more for the 50 and 90, one is getting something for one's money. Edited April 17, 2020 by adan 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Personally, I always found the 35 Summicron non-ASPH (v.4) to have a bit better raw resolution (not the same as MTF) at the center, compared to the ASPH. Over multiple samples of each. However the ASPH does have higher contrast (slightly) and holds up farther into the corners. Less coma/astigmatism - although not coma-free: note the divergent sagittal (solid) and tangential (dashed) lines, compared to the tighter spacing for the 90 and 50. BTW, astigmatism can look like camera shake (smeared in one direction ||| but not the other —). Let's face it, when one pays $900-1400 more for the 50 and 90, one is getting something for one's money. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/308604-not-sharp-new-summicron-m-35mm-f2-asph-silver-11674-on-cl/?do=findComment&comment=3955305'>More sharing options...
eev776 Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share #13 Posted April 17, 2020 18 hours ago, jaapv said: The lettering on the lens looks pretty sharp to me. Aren't you confusing "sharpness" (whatever that may be) with contrast? This is an old design lens and provides a more more smooth and less clinical rendering -to my eye more pleasing- than newer examples, especially modern APO designs, the Summilux 50 is also APO, despite not being marked as such. Especially the falloff into OOF rendering is markedly different. Using the Summicron 35 on the CL is only an advantage as it cuts off the weaker corners. This is could be another good point that it is an old design lens, that provides old film look of photography, especially great when you use it digital. Summilux 50 and APO Summicron 90mm are sharper lenses because they more expensive. Images that come out from Summicron 35mm are opposite to clinical, and I'm happy about that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eev776 Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share #14 Posted April 17, 2020 (edited) I love this image, colors an bokeh, but I thought at least few flowers should be sharp. Taken f2. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited April 17, 2020 by eev776 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/308604-not-sharp-new-summicron-m-35mm-f2-asph-silver-11674-on-cl/?do=findComment&comment=3955345'>More sharing options...
eev776 Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share #15 Posted April 17, 2020 (edited) Taken f2. Cars in the center are sharp, white one on right side is not. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited April 17, 2020 by eev776 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/308604-not-sharp-new-summicron-m-35mm-f2-asph-silver-11674-on-cl/?do=findComment&comment=3955346'>More sharing options...
eev776 Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share #16 Posted April 17, 2020 (edited) Taken f2. Should been sharper in top center of cactus. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited April 17, 2020 by eev776 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/308604-not-sharp-new-summicron-m-35mm-f2-asph-silver-11674-on-cl/?do=findComment&comment=3955347'>More sharing options...
eev776 Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share #17 Posted April 17, 2020 (edited) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Taken at f4 and it's dead sharp! Edited April 17, 2020 by eev776 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Taken at f4 and it's dead sharp! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/308604-not-sharp-new-summicron-m-35mm-f2-asph-silver-11674-on-cl/?do=findComment&comment=3955349'>More sharing options...
eev776 Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share #18 Posted April 17, 2020 3 hours ago, adan said: Let's go to the MTF charts (Leica's own): Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Personally, I always found the 35 Summicron non-ASPH (v.4) to have a bit better raw resolution (not the same as MTF) at the center, compared to the ASPH. Over multiple samples of each. However the ASPH does have higher contrast (slightly) and holds up farther into the corners. Less coma/astigmatism - although not coma-free: note the divergent sagittal (solid) and tangential (dashed) lines, compared to the tighter spacing for the 90 and 50. BTW, astigmatism can look like camera shake (smeared in one direction ||| but not the other —). Let's face it, when one pays $900-1400 more for the 50 and 90, one is getting something for one's money. This is interesting, I guess that is why people get more expensive Summilux-M 35mm. But I must say that my APO-Summicron 90mm still sharper than Summicron 35mm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 17, 2020 Share #19 Posted April 17, 2020 1 hour ago, eev776 said: Taken f2. Should been sharper in top center of cactus. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The top center is simply out of focus. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 17, 2020 Share #20 Posted April 17, 2020 1 hour ago, eev776 said: Taken f2. Cars in the center are sharp, white one on right side is not. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! To me this looks slightly back-focused. Look at the top window on the right. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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