M10M = 12bit or 14bit?

[xiaubauu2009]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

12 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

We have had this same discussion in the S section of the forum.

16bit DNG files are a container.  They can fit the RAW data from 8bit, 12bit, 14bit or 16bit (or others) inside the container, but it does not mean the data is there.

What I can say after owning the M9M, the M246 and now the M10, is that the M10 has more information in the shadows than any other M series camera I have used.  It comes close to the data in the S007 (in my opinion, no specific tests).  I have now posted images of a 17"x22" print from an ISO 50,000 shot taken with the M10M and close ups of the print, on instagram. 

In terms of dynamic range, it is another step up like the M246 was from the M9M.  I understand the RAW files always seem a little flatter from the CMOS than the CCD.  However, the data is all there and proper contrast adjustments can make the file just as nice as the CMOS.  Here is an example (dark image on purpose).  I'll post an ISO 50,000, which you will see has no banding.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Having info in the shadow is more like DR? how many gradient of grey has to do with bit rate... so 12 bit definitely has less, quite a lot less. as for the pop/punch from CCD to CMOS, I think it's just how different behaviour of each sensor is like... personally, I think CCD is unique, but too many handicap.

Nice photos by the way.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[xiaubauu2009]

3 hours ago, frame-it said:

you are absolutely right..but the Raw histogram will show the "range" of that actual data.

So where do I find that info in the Rawdigger? cause I see 16bit per channel on the info side of the M10p and S007 files...

[frame-it]

1 hour ago, xiaubauu2009 said:

So where do I find that info in the Rawdigger? cause I see 16bit per channel on the info side of the M10p and S007 files...

the histogram value

[frame-it]

also:

if you have exiftool installed run: exiftool -BitsPerSample Filename

Exif ID TAG is 0x0102

[BitsPerSampleint16u[n]!IFD0]

[SrMi]

5 hours ago, frame-it said:

also:

if you have exiftool installed run: exiftool -BitsPerSample Filename

Exif ID TAG is 0x0102

[BitsPerSampleint16u[n]!IFD0]

BitsPerSampleint16u is 16 for M10M's DNG files and 8 for M10M's JPG files. That field describes "The number of bits per image component" not the number of bits used by the camera.

In Rawdigger, check the max values (or mouse over the brightest parts). It will be about 16000 for 14-bit and around 4000 for 12-bits.

[frame-it]

yes the S007 is 14 bit and the GFX100 is real 16 bit range

[SrMi]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

2 hours ago, frame-it said:

yes the S007 is 14 bit and the GFX100 is real 16 bit range

Unfortunately, on GFX100, due to OSPDAF banding, there is no advantage of using 16 instead of 14 bits.

[frame-it]

9 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Unfortunately, on GFX100, due to OSPDAF banding, there is no advantage of using 16 instead of 14 bits.

sure..but isn't it best practice to shoot as low an ISO as possible and then use lights for paid shoots ? or do people actually shoot at ISO 50,000 for paid photoshoots

Edited March 16, 2020 by frame-it

[frame-it]

https://blog.kasson.com/gfx-100/visual-comparisons-of-fuji-gfx-100-14-and-16-bit-raw-precision/

[SrMi]

6 hours ago, frame-it said:

sure..but isn't it best practice to shoot as low an ISO as possible and then use lights for paid shoots ? or do people actually shoot at ISO 50,000 for paid photoshoots

I do not understand the reference to high ISO. OSPDAF banding rears its ugly head at ISO100 as demonstrated by Jim Kasson's blog post that you linked above.

Edited March 17, 2020 by SrMi

[frame-it]

14 minutes ago, SrMi said:

I do not understand the reference to high ISO. OSPDAF banding rears its ugly head at ISO100 as demonstrated by Jim Kasson's blog post that you linked above.

"6-stop underexposed captures at ISO 100 "

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by frame-it

[SrMi]

7 hours ago, frame-it said:

"6-stop underexposed captures at ISO 100 "

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Thank you for explaining what you meant by "high ISO". Since I doubt anybody else in the M Monochrom forum is interested in this topic, I will continue the discussion about why I use only 14-bits on on my GFX100 directly with you, via PM. Cheers.