Leica M10-R VS. SL2 which one to get?

[eev776]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Getting Leica M10-R or SL2 is a big question for me. 

I own Leica CL, it's a great camera and I really enjoying it, but I need more megapixels and prefer full frame camera for it's image rendering especially in a night conditions.

I want to keep my CL that I use with set of M lenses, Summilux and Summicron's and R lenses too, not planing to purchase any SL lenses though, they too large.

Personally I don't like the idea of rangefinder, I have to look through the lens, so I would get add on viewfinder for M camera and M cameras more expensive too.

SL2 is a big and heavy camera that is the only one thing I don't like about it.

Anyone has two cameras Pros and Cons?

I'm open for suggestions form SL2 user. Thank you!

Edited March 13, 2020 by eev776

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Jeff S]

Well, nobody has both cameras, as the M10R does not (yet) exist. The M10 Monochrom is currently the highest MP M body. But many here own an M of some sort, as well as a mirror less Leica or other brand EVF-based system.  

These decisions are very personal and depend on one’s priorities and preferences.  Specs don’t always tell the story; actual testing helps. I use both an an M (currently M10/MM1) and SL2.  For me, an M is for RF use only, with lenses from 28-50, pretty much the sweet spot for RF viewing, at least for me.  I would never buy an M if I didn’t enjoy that experience.  The SL2 serves my other needs... longer/wider lenses, zooms, weather sealing, etc.  And I’m a believer in native lenses.  But that’s my situation; you’ve already described key differences from your circumstances.

It took me a while to land on a complementary system for the M.  I listed my goals and priorities, then proceeded to demo or rent several alternatives, both Leica and other brands, and made pics and prints. IQ is hardly a limitation these days, across systems.  A 24 MP SL2 would have sufficed for me. Much more came down to lens options, handling and ergonomics, viewing and focusing, control interface, etc.  No survey could have answered my questions.  Pick a combination, and it’s certain that someone else uses and likes it, while others would not.  

Jeff

Edited March 13, 2020 by Jeff S

[jaapv]

If you like the CL the SL2 is a bit of a no-brainer. You don't sound like an M type of photographer. Even if you use manual lenses on your CL, using a rangefinder-OVF is a whole different experience, which I suspect you won't like.
The Visoflex 020 is not in the same class as the CL and SL 2 EVFs. It is rather silly to waste about 1200 Euro on a rangefinder you won't use. I'm surprised that you are even considering an M.

[ru2far2c]

1 hour ago, eev776 said:

Getting Leica M10-R or SL2 is a big question for me. 

Personally I don't like the idea of rangefinder, I have to look through the lens, so I would get add on viewfinder for M camera and M cameras more expensive too.

SL2 is a big and heavy camera that is the only one thing I don't like about it.

Anyone has two cameras Pros and Cons?

I'm open for suggestions form SL2 user. Thank you!

I think you answered you own question here really.

Sounds like you'll be better off with the CL.

I am very content with my SL and M240's 24mb. 

Edited March 13, 2020 by ru2far2c

[eev776]

44 minutes ago, jaapv said:

If you like the CL the SL2 is a bit of a no-brainer. You don't sound like an M type of photographer. Even if you use manual lenses on your CL, using a rangefinder-OVF is a whole different experience, which I suspect you won't like.
The Visoflex 020 is not in the same class as the CL and SL 2 EVFs. It is rather silly to waste about 1200 Euro on a rangefinder you won't use. I'm surprised that you are even considering an M.

You right I about EVF. And I'm not really M camera person, I just love M glass. I would dream to have Q size camera with interchangeable lens system. I like SL2 in many ways except it's size,  used it this weekend the touch Menu is fantastic!!! Image stabilization worked with my R Rom lenses!

[eev776]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

Well, nobody has both cameras, as the M10R does not (yet) exist. The M10 Monochrom is currently the highest MP M body. But many here own an M of some sort, as well as a mirror less Leica or other brand EVF-based system.  

These decisions are very personal and depend on one’s priorities and preferences.  Specs don’t always tell the story; actual testing helps. I use both an an M (currently M10/MM1) and SL2.  For me, an M is for RF use only, with lenses from 28-50, pretty much the sweet spot for RF viewing, at least for me.  I would never buy an M if I didn’t enjoy that experience.  The SL2 serves my other needs... longer/wider lenses, zooms, weather sealing, etc.  And I’m a believer in native lenses.  But that’s my situation; you’ve already described key differences from your circumstances.

It took me a while to land on a complementary system for the M.  I listed my goals and priorities, then proceeded to demo or rent several alternatives, both Leica and other brands, and made pics and prints. IQ is hardly a limitation these days, across systems.  A 24 MP SL2 would have sufficed for me. Much more came down to lens options, handling and ergonomics, viewing and focusing, control interface, etc.  No survey could have answered my questions.  Pick a combination, and it’s certain that someone else uses and likes it, while others would not.  

Jeff

I feel that CL and SL2 is a perfect combination.

I need a camera for a professional architectural, landscape, night city photography, not much street photography reportage.

[Jared]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

If you don’t think you like rangefinders, there is no way you should get an M10.  That is their raison d’être.  So that leaves two good options for your M and R lenses, the CL that you already own or the SL/SL2.  You already own the CL, so no reason to list the pro’s and con’s of that camera.  What will you get with the SL2 that you don’t already have?  A full frame, 47 megapixel chip, IBIS, a bigger viewfinder, weather sealing, vastly better video capabilities, and better controls.  The downsides?  Obviously, it’s expensive and it’s big.  It’s not all that heavy with ‘M’ lenses attached—that’s more of an issue with SL lenses.  Some of the TL lenses are really exceptional, by the way, and seem to work about as well on the SL2 as they do on the CL.  Yes, you’re throwing away a lot of megapixels, but you might want one or two just to gain the AF capabilities.  The 11-23 is good.  The 35mm is phenomenal.  So is the 60mm Macro.  I’d also consider at least one of the Summicron SL primes for the long term.  They are actually a step above any of the ‘M’ glass in terms of image quality, and that can be really nice depending on your photographic needs.  That will vary from one photographer to another, of course. 

Edited March 13, 2020 by Jared

[Photoworks]

I have the M cameras for decades, and I got the SL2 to better use the M lenses.

To M has always been a walk around and travel camera, for that I love it. I was never feel comfortable using M cameras for jobs where I need control over the results.

The SL2 is nice, but not so reliable as many other systems I use. Until the firmware has been fixed I won't use this camera on a job. To me it is almost like using a beta version. I had to reset the camera already 3 time in one month.

Most of my problems are profiles, batteries, as auto ISO getting stuck at 100

[eev776]

4 hours ago, Jared said:

If you don’t think you like rangefinders, there is no way you should get an M10.  That is their raison d’être.  So that leaves two good options for your M and R lenses, the CL that you already own or the SL/SL2.  You already own the CL, so no reason to list the pro’s and con’s of that camera.  What will you get with the SL2 that you don’t already have?  A full frame, 47 megapixel chip, IBIS, a bigger viewfinder, weather sealing, vastly better video capabilities, and better controls.  The downsides?  Obviously, it’s expensive and it’s big.  It’s not all that heavy with ‘M’ lenses attached—that’s more of an issue with SL lenses.  Some of the TL lenses are really exceptional, by the way, and seem to work about as well on the SL2 as they do on the CL.  Yes, you’re throwing away a lot of megapixels, but you might want one or two just to gain the AF capabilities.  The 11-23 is good.  The 35mm is phenomenal.  So is the 60mm Macro.  I’d also consider at least one of the Summicron SL primes for the long term.  They are actually a step above any of the ‘M’ glass in terms of image quality, and that can be really nice depending on your photographic needs.  That will vary from one photographer to another, of course. 

I see what you saying, I agree.

BTW I had TL60 Macro and returned back after two weeks. Autofocus is pain manual focus is bad, a got macro adapter for my M lenses instead.

[eev776]

39 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

I have the M cameras for decades, and I got the SL2 to better use the M lenses.

To M has always been a walk around and travel camera, for that I love it. I was never feel comfortable using M cameras for jobs where I need control over the results.

The SL2 is nice, but not so reliable as many other systems I use. Until the firmware has been fixed I won't use this camera on a job. To me it is almost like using a beta version. I had to reset the camera already 3 time in one month.

Most of my problems are profiles, batteries, as auto ISO getting stuck at 100

Wow I did not know SL2 had those problems.

[thighslapper]

15 minutes ago, eev776 said:

Wow I did not know SL2 had those problems.

This is one users experience.

I don't see many others mentioning these issues.

Battery life is undoubtedly poor, but I can't believe Leica would release the SL2 with this being a permanent situation .... I suspect a higher capacity battery must be in the pipeline sometime soon. If not then they have been remarkably daft to design a camera with power consumption that cannot be adequately met with the batteries available. 

[meerec]

5 hours ago, eev776 said:

Wow I did not know SL2 had those problems.

Seen NONE of those. 

[Aktenschrank]

10 hours ago, thighslapper said:

I suspect a higher capacity battery must be in the pipeline sometime soon.

I'm hoping the same, but on the other hand...has this actually ever happened before in cameraland? That a manufacturer releases a higher capacity battery with the same form factor that can be used on existing bodies?

[eev776]

I'm surprised people speaking about SL2 like it's high priced Leica camera.

If you compare it to M cameras it's cheaper, also cheaper than original SL, only $1,000 more than Q2 with one fixed lens and double price of CL which is twice less resolution ( I still love my CL and going to keep it, versatile camera, streamline look of 1920's Leica is really cool).

I think CL and SL2 is a perfect combination to have.

I went to Leica Store in Los Angeles to try SL2, here is pictures of my CL camera trying my Super-Angulon-R 21mm and APO Telyt-R 180mm on SL2.

Ergonomically speaking R lenses feel much better with SL2 as well.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Jared]

8 hours ago, Aktenschrank said:

I'm hoping the same, but on the other hand...has this actually ever happened before in cameraland? That a manufacturer releases a higher capacity battery with the same form factor that can be used on existing bodies?

Sure.  X1D from Hasselblad got a higher capacity battery partway through its lifespan.  I think it was only about 10% higher, though.  It can and does happen.

[Jared]

19 hours ago, eev776 said:

Wow I did not know SL2 had those problems.

I have only had my SL2 for a short while (about a thousand frames or so), but have not had to reset it, have not had to rebuild profiles, and have not had the ISO get stuck.  I have not heard of others having those problems, either.  I don’t think these are common issues for the SL2. 

The battery life is poor, but not to the point of the camera being unusable.  I got about 350 shots on a single charge the other day and still had one bar left on the display.  That’s not great, but it’s not really a reason to avoid the camera.  Certainly, a second battery is a good idea.  The SL wasn’t fantastic, either, and I suspect the new EVF draws more power than the last. I’m not holding my breath for a firmware fix. Still, it’s got better battery life than my X1DII.

[michali]

I'm always bemused by these discussions about battery life. Many photographers have huge or sometimes unrealistic expectations of what features they want squeezed into a camera, e.g. EVF, Rear Screen, Live View, AFS, AFC, Tracking, IBIS, 20FPS shutter speed, Auto Everything...... the list goes on and on.  The camera battery also has to power and drive the motors on AF lenses. These features consume huge amounts of power. Then of course, this must all be housed or contained in a "reasonably" sized body.  

That's all well and good.  However the basic laws of electronics and physics dictate that there's only so much you can squeeze into small packages before running out of space and then running into thermal problems - heat generation etc. 

Once we've got all of these features contained in a "reasonably" sized camera body, the discussion then becomes about how poor the battery life is.

Battery life will not improve significantly, it is what it is given the physical parameters and what the camera can do. This applies to most cameras not just the SL2.  Just buy a couple of spare batteries or a hand grip and move on.

Edited March 14, 2020 by michali

[scott kirkpatrick]

23 minutes ago, michali said:

I'm always bemused by these discussions about battery life. Many photographers have huge or sometimes unrealistic expectations of what features they want squeezed into a camera, ....

Once we've got all of these features contained in a "reasonably" sized camera body, the discussion then becomes about how poor the battery life is.

Get used to it, battery life will not improve, it is what it is given what the camera can do. 

There's another factor to keep in mind.  Semiconductor logic and memory moves ahead with what is still exponential growth in capacity, with a time constant of a few years.  That's why we have gone from 5 MPx to 50 MPx full frame cameras in about 10 years.  Moore's Law is a mixture of scientific and economic forces, but it is real and still happening.  Battery technology also has an exponential growth curve when you look at energy density achieved since the days of Volta.  But the growth time constant is closer to ten years.  Even with the investments that electric vehicles have brought, the batteries we can use today are only about twice as good as what was available when digital cameras first appeared.  So the remaining improvements in camera life have to come from more clever electronic design, which is largely a question of cutting off power to every part of the system not currently in use, possibly serializing things which would give higher performance if done in parallel. 

Edited March 14, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Tailwagger]

Over 5000 frames with no issues. The only lockup I experienced was self induced when using the LAM. If the mount isn't fully locked down, the camera can go tilt.  As for the battery, 560 shots this past weekend with power to spare. IS on, eye finder only. No prefocus or cAF.  While not perfect, from a general operational POV it's hard, at least for me, to find fault with the SL2. It's really a matter of whether or not the form factor and lens availability works for you.

[Photoworks]

6 hours ago, Jared said:

I have only had my SL2 for a short while (about a thousand frames or so), but have not had to reset it, have not had to rebuild profiles, and have not had the ISO get stuck.  I have not heard of others having those problems, either.  I don’t think these are common issues for the SL2. 

The battery life is poor, but not to the point of the camera being unusable.  I got about 350 shots on a single charge the other day and still had one bar left on the display.  That’s not great, but it’s not really a reason to avoid the camera.  Certainly, a second battery is a good idea.  The SL wasn’t fantastic, either, and I suspect the new EVF draws more power than the last. I’m not holding my breath for a firmware fix. Still, it’s got better battery life than my X1DII.

here is a video on ISO 100 AUTO issue.

even after resetting the camera. 

If you have any suggestion for me to try please speak up