Fading / missing frame lines

[Stevejack]

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Hi All,

brand mew M10-M and last night on my first time out the frame lines seemed to fade away and re-appear. 
it first happened during the sunset, the lines were missing entirely ( I could still shoot) or at times would fade in and out of view. Sometimes they would fade in but be extremely dim.

the battery was getting low, but still showed charge (20% or so).

My hands were not blocking any sensors or anything. After the sun disappeared, it kept happening so I don’t think it’s related to ambient brightness. 
 

Anyone else with the same issue? Will try a reset etc. today but there’s no new firmware to try yet. 

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[a.noctilux]

Not quite normal behavior.

In my use of LED illuminated frame lines Leica M, toggle ON or OFF after some timeout, never fading away and reappear.

Illumination LED circuitry can be faulty or some bad contacts.

 

Ask your Leica Dealer.

[Stevejack]

6 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Not quite normal behavior.

In my use of LED illuminated frame lines Leica M, toggle ON or OFF after some timeout, never fading away and reappear.

Illumination LED circuitry can be faulty or some bad contacts.

 

Ask your Leica Dealer.

Yeah, I'll definitely take it back to the dealer tomorrow and see what they say, thanks for the info.

If I cover the frame-line sensor the lines will fade down to almost nothing, but uncovering it returns the frame-lines to normal brightness. The problem is, during normal use the frame-lines are fading away almost as though the sensor is being covered (it isn't).

In certain situations during normal use with bright scenes, the frame-lines are completely invisible. As though the camera has been switched off or has slipped into standby mode (again, definitely not what's happening). 

I wonder if the sensor itself is faulty... it was so frustrating to keep losing the lines yesterday on its maiden run. 

[Keith (M)]

Page 58 of the manual is relevant - it explains how the "brightness sensor automatically adjusts rangefinder brightness".  When I point mine at a bright scene, the frame lines are also bright. If I then swing round and point the camera at a dark scene the lines fade, presumably to avoid being too distracting.  

Says nothing about them disappearing though!

[John Black]

It's normal.  The M10 series employs auto-brightness for the frame lines and there is no menu setting to bias that brightness one way or another.  The frame lines can get incredibly dim, almost to the point of being invisible.  In very dark settings, they nearly go away.  Same on my M10-P's.  The M-240 series frame lines were brighter.  

[UliWer]

The framelines of original M10 (non -P) don't change their brightness. This was only introduced with the M10-P and has been discussed before:

The proposal to introduce a manual setting for the brightness of the framelines as it already exists for the monitor seems reasonable.

[digitalfx]

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normal behavior with current cameras/fw...I see this occasionally as well.

FW update would be nice, although its never really been an issue for me while shooting.

[Stevejack]

Thanks all, I think I can see what's happening.
It really only falters during very high contrast scenes (such as sunset). The frame lines essentially become unusable when the lighting is just right (or wrong) - it's almost as though the sensor is misreading the scene, or perhaps is picking up on the dark foreground and not the bright sky...? In any case, the frame lines vanish. 

If you point the camera somewhere dark (under a desk or inside a cupboard for example), the lines will dim down very faint. If you then raise the camera to look out the window, the frame lines remain dim for a couple of seconds where they are invisible against the bright sky... after a short while they should brighten up enough to become useful again. 
But in very high contrast scenes, my guess is the sensor is just dimming down to a low setting when it shouldn't be. Pointing at the sky doesn't help, the lines aren't brightening up like you would expect, so I can only assume that those very specific lighting conditions are causing havoc. 

Hopefully a firmware update will allow for manual override, I much preferred how it worked on my M262.

[jkcampbell2]

On 2/21/2020 at 2:36 PM, UliWer said:

The framelines of original M10 (non -P) don't change their brightness. This was only introduced with the M10-P and has been discussed before:

The proposal to introduce a manual setting for the brightness of the framelines as it already exists for the monitor seems reasonable.

Sorry but I don't see anything in the thread you quoted that says the M10 framelines do not change brightness. The framelines in my M10 definitely change brightness automatically depending on the scene brightness. Under bright scenes the framelines are very clear and bright. when I turn toward a darker scene the framelines dim but never to the point I can't see them. Cheers, jc

[UliWer]

When the topic came up I tried with the M10 and didn't realize any changement. Today I got the M10-Monochrom and have to agree with users who say that in dark surroundings the framelines become almost invisible. So I tried again with the M10 - and you are right: there is some changement of brightness, but it is much more subtle and under the same conditions as with the M10-M they never seem to disappear while the frames for the Monochrom fade much more.