Master close Focus Summicron 75

[Schittra]

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How do you master close focus of Summicron 75?

It can focus down to 0.7 meter, which is great. However, due to range finder, I cannot frame the subject properly. Any tip please? Thanks you.

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[david strachan]

Use a tripod to check viewfinder framing against sensor capture.  There is a parallax error at closest focusing which varies with different lenses.

...

[M11 for me]

Or use LV. 

[adan]

Unless, of course, one is shooting with a film Leica.   "Never assume!"

At one point we had an M10 "questions" thread that explained how the framelines (for any Leica M) are "set" for an optimized distance. And that users must learn to compensate for lens-extension factor* when framing things closer than, or farther than, that optimized distance. But I can't find that link now.

(*lens extension factor - as one focuses closer, the lens moves away from the film or sensor, and magnifies the world a bit larger. A 75mm lens at its closest focus will behave like an 80-85mm lens, because the optical center has been moved out to 80-85mm from the image plane.)

Anyway: When using the close-focusing, tight-framing 75mm lenses closer than 1.5 meter or so, the actual picture will be a smaller area than the framelines show. By about two to four "frameline thicknesses."

It should be noted that Leica has changed the "optimized framing distance" over the years - originally it was set for the minimum focus distance for each focal length (which created "loose framing" at longer landscape distances). Then it was set to compromise distances such as 1m for all lenses, or 2m for all lenses. So the exact compensation needed will vary from M3 through M10 - the manual often shows a diagram similar to my example below.

It really just takes practice to learn exactly how much smaller, and learn to make a compensation by eye ("crop the picture" mentally as you view the lines). Easy to practice with a digital M camera, since one can get instant feedback and learn to see the difference quickly. Harder with the "delayed feedback" of shooting film and waiting for prints.

At 0.7m, the actual picture vs. the framelines for 75mm will look about like this (note the "4 frameline thicknesses" approximated in red).

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[M11 for me]

Thank a lot for this detailled explanation. This motivated me to search that section in the instruction manual of the M10 (p. 158). Very useful and it is very good to be aware of.

[Schittra]

4 hours ago, david strachan said:

Use a tripod to check viewfinder framing against sensor capture.  There is a parallax error at closest focusing which varies with different lenses.

...

Thanks! Need to understand that error and learn how to live with it.

[Schittra]

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3 hours ago, M10 for me said:

Or use LV. 

Love this answer. I am too old to remember it has LV!

[a.noctilux]

52 minutes ago, Schittra said:

Love this answer. I am too old to remember it has LV!

Which Leica M you use ?

Adan's explanations can be used on all Leica M ,

Precision framing is not for M anyway but we can come close with some experiences...

hint for film M that I use sometimes with the nice Apo-Summicron-M 75mm,

when I use the 75mm at less than 1m, or 1.5m depending on camera :

when I can or have time to do that, I check the framing with the "field lever push" to 90mm, to have what I want on film (with some safe margin),

it works very well.

Edited February 10, 2020 by a.noctilux

[Schittra]

5 hours ago, adan said:

Unless, of course, one is shooting with a film Leica.   "Never assume!"

At one point we had an M10 "questions" thread that explained how the framelines (for any Leica M) are "set" for an optimized distance. And that users must learn to compensate for lens-extension factor* when framing things closer than, or farther than, that optimized distance. But I can't find that link now.

(*lens extension factor - as one focuses closer, the lens moves away from the film or sensor, and magnifies the world a bit larger. A 75mm lens at its closest focus will behave like an 80-85mm lens, because the optical center has been moved out to 80-85mm from the image plane.)

Anyway: When using the close-focusing, tight-framing 75mm lenses closer than 1.5 meter or so, the actual picture will be a smaller area than the framelines show. By about two to four "frameline thicknesses."

It should be noted that Leica has changed the "optimized framing distance" over the years - originally it was set for the minimum focus distance for each focal length (which created "loose framing" at longer landscape distances). Then it was set to compromise distances such as 1m for all lenses, or 2m for all lenses. So the exact compensation needed will vary from M3 through M10 - the manual often shows a diagram similar to my example below.

It really just takes practice to learn exactly how much smaller, and learn to make a compensation by eye ("crop the picture" mentally as you view the lines). Easy to practice with a digital M camera, since one can get instant feedback and learn to see the difference quickly. Harder with the "delayed feedback" of shooting film and waiting for prints.

At 0.7m, the actual picture vs. the framelines for 75mm will look about like this (note the "4 frameline thicknesses" approximated in red).

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

Very highly educated comment and practical. Thank you very much.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Schittra

[Schittra]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

Which Leica M you use ?

Adan's explanations can be used on all Leica M ,

Precision framing is not for M anyway but we can come close with some experiences...

hint for film M that I use sometimes with the nice Apo-Summicron-M 75mm,

when I use the 75mm at less than 1m, or 1.5m depending on camera :

when I can or have time to do that, I check the framing with the "field lever push" to 90mm, to have what I want on film (with some safe margin),

it works very well.

I had M6 and M9. Just have M10 for a couple of month. I like the idea of field lever push. Good point. Thanks 

[tobey bilek]

A piece of matt acetate taped to film guides, shutter on  B, back open,  darkcloth, and tripod qualifies as live view on film M.   

[sblutter]

You can back up a bit and crop in post.  Better to have more picture to work with than too tight and have to compromise - or worse; lose the shot.

I often use the Summi 40C as a 50 I love it's compactness.  An underrated lens, very nearly on par with the Summi 50 V4 which also get a lot of use.  Is an f:2.0 & focuses to 0.7m

Or the Minolta version if filter use is anticipated