Summicron 28mm latest versions

[paulcurtis]

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So i am aware there is a design change with the 28mm Cron, and that the later version is supposed to be optically a lot better than the previous, especially with non Leica cameras. I am using these on a variety of cameras, from A7sII, Sigma fp to Red Cameras.

I was looking at picking up a used 28mm cron but found out about the redesign. But i haven't really found that many examples of whether this is a 'real' difference or a on paper one. I've seen comments about the new version being 'higher res' but if you don't need that the old one is fine but i've also seen a report that suggests the field curvature and corners are very different on the newer one.

Has anyone here been fortunate enough to have both or tested both side by side?

Kindest
Paul

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[lct]

I have both versions and don't see significant differences but i don't focus at infinity and i'm no pixel peeper. Beware that focusing at infinity can make visible differences at the corners though.

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[pedaes]

I think you are reading to much internet opinion from dubious sources. Leica lenses do not undergo 'a lot better' improvement between versions, they are to good in the 'old' version for that!

If you want a good factual and objective comparison look here https://www.reidreviews.com/articleindextable.html

Like all good advice, it will cost.

[anickpick]

The new version is slightly better when used on an M camera. I do not think the difference is significant.

On the SL (and SL2) however, the new version is much better, especially in the outer parts of the frame.

Edited January 13, 2020 by anickpick

[paulcurtis]

1 hour ago, lct said:

I have both versions and don't see significant differences but i don't focus at infinity and i'm no pixel peeper. Beware that focusing at infinity can make visible differences at the corners though.

Awesome, how come you have both? Are you using them on an M body as well?

Digilloyd has a breakdown and shows quite different results between them. It's rare to see both together. have you ever done a side by side?

 

1 hour ago, pedaes said:

I think you are reading to much internet opinion from dubious sources. Leica lenses do not undergo 'a lot better' improvement between versions, they are to good in the 'old' version for that!

If you want a good factual and objective comparison look here https://www.reidreviews.com/articleindextable.html

Like all good advice, it will cost.

Maybe i'll need to resubscribe to Sean then.

I'm quite aware of internet opinion but there's also the question of truth here. I would love the old one to be basically the same as it's a lot more cost effective! But if i'm going down this route then i want something that works the best for me. I've been through so many lenses and settling on M lenses is fine but i want a 28 that does infinity and is reasonable flat field. I prefer the look of the cron bokeh than the summilux and frankly never shoot at f1.4 anyway.

I had a 28mm Leica R, the last version, for a while along with 28s in Zeiss, Voightlander, Contax and so on. The R wasn't too bad but i believe this to be better.

1 minute ago, anickpick said:

The new version is slightly better towards the outer parts of the frame when used on an M camera.

On the SL (and SL2) the new version is much better.

As far as i can understand the new one is better across the board, there was one.

Jonathan Slack tested both but his results are so different from each other that i question whether his old copy had been dropped. If the two lenses where as different as his results show then no one would have bought the old version...

cheers
Paul

[LeicaR10]

Paulcurtis,  I have owned both copies of the 28mm Summicron-Asph M.  The latest version is better in the corners by far.  Check out Jono Slack's comparison article and you will see the difference.  Jono's article is free and he did a good job with his demonstration.  I read his article before buying the latest version and he is right, the new version is better.  The older version has less contrast and softer corners.  Some photographers like that look, others like more resolution in the corners.  It will be your decision of course how you wish to render your photographs.  Try:  http://www.slack.co.uk/leica-m-resolution.html    This should help. r/ Mark

[paulcurtis]

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2 minutes ago, LeicaR10 said:

Paulcurtis,  I have owned both copies of the 28mm Summicron-Asph M.  The latest version is better in the corners by far.  Check out Jono Slack's comparison article and you will see the difference.  Jono's article is free and he did a good job with his demonstration.  I read his article before buying the latest version and he is right, the new version is better.  The older version has less contrast and softer corners.  Some photographers like that look, others like more resolution in the corners.  It will be your decision of course how you wish to render your photographs.  Try: http://www.slack.co.uk/leica-m-resolution.html    This should help. r/ Mark

Ah that's the article i was talking about and the fact that you also confirmed that means that his old 28 must have been a normal copy. Because the results are so crazy different i did wonder if there was something wrong with his old copy!

thank you for this
Paul

[Guest]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb lct:

...

Peter Karbe, chief optical designer at Leica and primarily responsible for both versions of the Summicron 28mm, argued similarly when asked about the differences between these two lenses.
For owners of version 1 there would be no decisive reasons for switching to version 2.
Version 2 was optimized for digital sensors, while version 1 was developed at the time of analog Leicas.
For pictorial photography, the differences would be academic and therefore irrelevant

[lct]

6 minutes ago, paulcurtis said:

Awesome, how come you have both? Are you using them on an M body as well?
Digilloyd has a breakdown and shows quite different results between them. It's rare to see both together. have you ever done a side by side?

Been using both on all my cameras including an M8.2 and an M240. Also on a Kolari modded A7s and the digital CL. I forgot the Epson R-D1 . As i said above i don't see significant differences but i'm no pixel peeper and i don't focus at infinity where differences are visible at the corners i've been told. I used to do side by side comparos with other lenses, including here, but it's too painful for me sorry so i prefer letting this to reviewers. 

[Tom Johnston]

I've been fortunate to have a few different Leica 28 lenses over the years- 28 Elmarit v.3, 28 Elmarit v.4, and currently first v. of 28 ASPH Summicron- they have all been wonderful performers, each offering subtle differences. Versions 3 & 4 were used on my film bodies, an Epson RD-1, M8, while the ASPH had only been on my M9, and future bodies. This version does everything I need it too and along with my 35 Summicron ASPH - 2 lenses I don't think I'll ever part with.

[paulcurtis]

12 hours ago, lct said:

Been using both on all my cameras including an M8.2 and an M240. Also on a Kolari modded A7s and the digital CL. I forgot the Epson R-D1 . As i said above i don't see significant differences but i'm no pixel peeper and i don't focus at infinity where differences are visible at the corners i've been told. I used to do side by side comparos with other lenses, including here, but it's too painful for me sorry so i prefer letting this to reviewers. 

That's great to know.

Looking at Jono Slacks comparison though - even on the M Bodies the two versions look like chalk and cheese - very very different at a number of apertures. I would have thought it would be quite obvious. The fact that you have the Kolari mod, maybe that's why it's not so obvious for you!

thanks
Paul

[lct]

47 minutes ago, paulcurtis said:

Looking at Jono Slacks comparison though - even on the M Bodies the two versions look like chalk and cheese - very very different at a number of apertures. I would have thought it would be quite obvious. The fact that you have the Kolari mod, maybe that's why it's not so obvious for you!

I would not test any M wide on a stock Sony. Tried a couple of them on the A7r2 of my office and its sensor stack was too thick as expected. M cameras have not this problem though. I don't recall what Mr Slacks said exactly but another reviewer was claiming that the 28/2 v1 is "boring"...  Better try the real thing in person if you ask me.

[colint544]

I have the version 1 28mm Summicron ASPH. It renders wonderfully, and is a good companion to the 50mm Summilux ASPH. Super sharp where you focus it, and capable of sublime, melting backgrounds at F2, and in the right situation. I love some of the images I've got with it.

But if I were buying from scratch, I'd go for the current version. It's apparently a little sharper in the corners, without sacrificing the wonderful drawing character of the mk1. But, more than that, the design is much more robust. I handled my copy very carefully from when I bought it - knowing the risk of the front coming loose - but still the front came loose. Had to go back to Leica for a repair. And it's coming loose again. It's a known design fault. The screws which hold it together at that point are almost microscopic. Why it was designed that way, nobody seems to know.

Get the latest version and be done with it - a lens for life.