wlaidlaw Posted January 7, 2020 Share #21  Posted January 7, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) Given that Leica was making not insignificant numbers of prototypes of the M Camera from around 1950/51 onwards and also there are prototype LTM Summicrons (Summitar* lenses) also from 1950 onwards, it would be unsurprising if Leica had made a number of M mount Summicrons both rigid and collapsible, to use on the test M cameras, with Thorium elements in the lens. A  related question - were any M Mount Summitars ever made? A trawl through the Leica archives should answer both questions. There was a rumour that these archives of the order/delivery books with all the serial numbers might be digitised and made available on line. This would be an immensely useful resource for us Leica historical enthusiasts. Wilson 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 Hi wlaidlaw, Take a look here Is there any M-mount radioactive Summicron 50/2 ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
tranquilo67 Posted January 7, 2020 Share #22  Posted January 7, 2020 Hi, Just wanted to let you know that my Summicron I that is exactly 700 number higher than yours, even when it's LTM it's absolutely yellow and, pending to be measured with a Geiger, I'm afraid it is radioactive despite it's supposed that it's a too high serial number for being hot. Best regards, Augusto Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/305067-is-there-any-m-mount-radioactive-summicron-502/?do=findComment&comment=3886729'>More sharing options...
PG Black nickel Posted March 10, 2020 Share #23  Posted March 10, 2020 Good morning everyone, I would like to intervene in this forum to make my small contribution. I have a collapsible summicron M mount with a very old number 920505. I saw only one M with an older number at Westlicht it was on an M3 test camera, the other collapsible M was on prototypes and was with dual lever. The other old numbers are basically screw mount at least from what I’ve seen so far! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/305067-is-there-any-m-mount-radioactive-summicron-502/?do=findComment&comment=3928891'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 10, 2020 Share #24  Posted March 10, 2020 Wow !! Really a very old number for a BM Summicron !! It's close to my 920.382.. which of course is in Screw Mount ... and has the same writings (same orientation for both writings - different from later items like in post #22) : I haven't idea of how many BM items are in the first batch (920-930.000) but they are surely a very small percentage : our LUF friend Alan McFall maybe has collected some data about... I think it's impossible to check if this lens left the factory as it is now (to say - BM) ... it could be a factory rework of an original SM item (maybe they provided such a service for a lens sent for maintenance ?) ... or an odd "leftover lens group" from the first batch that for unknown reasons stood in the factory warehousea and was picked and assembled later into a BM subassembly.... anyway it's by sure a someway precious item.  Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PG Black nickel Posted March 10, 2020 Share #25 Â Posted March 10, 2020 That is the question M mount or screw mount, yet its weight is exactly 234 g (the exact weight of a collapsible m mount). If it was a screw mount upgraded don't you think there would be 2/3 g of gap? right! I interviewed some Leica collectors and for them too it is a mystery! I have to send it to Westlicht to have it appraised. They may have the answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 11, 2020 Share #26 Â Posted March 11, 2020 LHSA and Jim Lager can be good sources of information, too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted March 11, 2020 Share #27 Â Posted March 11, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) Diehl lists the batch 920001 - 922100 from 1952 as being SOOIC. The first SOOIC-M is listed as being one of the batch 1114001- 1119000 from 1953. We all know, though, the Leica never did things in such an ordinary sequenced way. Jim Lager or the Archives may be able to help. My own sense is that this may have been a working prototype for the M mount or it may have been altered at a later stage. I cannot see this as having been part of regular production in 1952 when no M mount cameras were available to the public. William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PG Black nickel Posted March 11, 2020 Share #28  Posted March 11, 2020  Bonjour, I would think more of "test" lenses for the first M3, moreover as I said to Luigi, a SOOIC-M  N ° 920493 was on an M3 test camera. Find it hard to believe that Leitz upgraded from screw mount lenses to M mount .. what interest? At the time, there was an Irzoo adapter that cost much less than going to Leica for the transformation. Leica serial number lists often have fuzzy boundaries. I have often found lenses that go beyond the limits. Philippe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 11, 2020 Share #29  Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) A (vague) thought of mine is that a test lens for M3 would have a someway "rough" M Mount… or anyway a not so definitve one… your item (but it had to be very carefully inspected) looks to have the "definitve" style of the M version of the SOOIC … to say, a mount made / machined when it was already a "standard" product... But, repeat, just a thought… I fear none can give a sure answer about … and let us not forget that first batch was of TEN THOUSANDS numbers… Edited March 11, 2020 by luigi bertolotti Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted March 11, 2020 Share #30  Posted March 11, 2020 2 hours ago, PG Black nickel said: Find it hard to believe that Leitz upgraded from screw mount lenses to M mount A customer may have requested it. However, this would not have been done in 1952. I agree that a prototype is a distinct possibility given the early serial number.  2 hours ago, PG Black nickel said: Leica serial number lists often have fuzzy boundaries. I have often found lenses that go beyond the limits. This is what I said here and have said many times before on this forum. Taking lists of serial numbers from 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 years ago as gospel is foolish. I have discussed this with Jim Lager on a number of occasions and we have both agreed that trying to interpret such lists is a fool's errand unless specific and verified written information emerges. I only mentioned Thiele's (not Diehl as I said above) lists as additional information. I suggest that you ask the Leica Archives about this lens, but I must signal the fact that in most cases there is a lot less information on lenses than there is on cameras. William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stray cat Posted March 12, 2020 Share #31  Posted March 12, 2020 On 1/7/2020 at 12:55 AM, Ambrose said:  Sorry for the poor quality, having trouble with upload. i upload the photos to dropbox https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ktnuloskmxzcd8c/AADTWjpu_lEZMSAPApNZaj7pa?dl=0 And this Lens was found at Germany I'm confused. The lens in the dropbox photos is a summilux, yet the lens in the first picture, the one you are asking about, is a summicron. Or are we talking about two different lenses and I missed something? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted March 12, 2020 Share #32  Posted March 12, 2020 On 1/7/2020 at 6:45 PM, wlaidlaw said: Given that Leica was making not insignificant numbers of prototypes of the M Camera from around 1950/51 onwards and also there are prototype LTM Summicrons (Summitar* lenses) also from 1950 onwards, it would be unsurprising if Leica had made a number of M mount Summicrons both rigid and collapsible, to use on the test M cameras, with Thorium elements in the lens. A  related question - were any M Mount Summitars ever made? A trawl through the Leica archives should answer both questions. There was a rumour that these archives of the order/delivery books with all the serial numbers might be digitised and made available on line. This would be an immensely useful resource for us Leica historical enthusiasts. Wilson there is what the shop-owner says a 50mm summicron f2 LTM version at one of the shops here..but now i wonder if it might actually be a summitar ? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/305067-is-there-any-m-mount-radioactive-summicron-502/?do=findComment&comment=3929788'>More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 12, 2020 Share #33  Posted March 12, 2020 Could it be a * Summitar which were I believe prototype Summicrons? Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted March 12, 2020 Share #34  Posted March 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, wlaidlaw said: Could it be a * Summitar which were I believe prototype Summicrons? Wilson You would need to see the front ring with the SN. William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted March 12, 2020 Share #35  Posted March 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, wlaidlaw said: Could it be a * Summitar which were I believe prototype Summicrons? Wilson  Just now, willeica said: You would need to see the front ring with the SN. William will check when i decide to venture out next...it's close to the "corona-zone" that particular shop doesn't post pics of the front or back of the lens Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted March 12, 2020 Share #36 Â Posted March 12, 2020 is there a reason the line above f16 has a slant at the end ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted March 12, 2020 Share #37 Â Posted March 12, 2020 Just now, frame-it said: Â will check when i decide to venture out next...it's close to the "corona-zone" that particular shop doesn't post pics of the front or back of the lens The lens can wait. It seems ridiculous to be discussing lenses while the world closes down. Stay safe. William 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted March 12, 2020 Share #38 Â Posted March 12, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, frame-it said: is there a reason the line above f16 has a slant at the end ? The f16 line slant is for spacing purposes. This is found on a lot of early Leica lenses. Â The slanted line below is to connect with the infinity symbol. The slanted line at the very bottom is for infra red. William Edited March 12, 2020 by willeica 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted March 12, 2020 Share #39 Â Posted March 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, willeica said: The slanted line at the top is to connect with the infinity symbol. The slanted line at the bottom is for infra red. William thank you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted March 12, 2020 Share #40 Â Posted March 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, willeica said: The lens can wait. It seems ridiculous to be discussing lenses while the world closes down. Stay safe. William i get 3-4 emergency broadcast sms a day, most places where its fun to take pics are deserted and the weather is amazing, buses and trains are mostly empty..walking around is fine..public transport is risky though i did drop by there last week and picked up a gorgeous canon 50mm f1.4 LTM and a leica Elmarit R180mm v2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now