Used M8's Don't Sell on Ebay

[ttriolo]

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I have noticed recently that used M8's don't seem to sell very well on Ebay even though they appear to have decent starting bids or "buy it now" prices. The last half dozen that have been put up for bids have failed to generate any bids at all. I can understand if bids didn't reach the reserve price set, but M8's of late are not getting any bids at all and yet they are in mint or like new condition. One guy was selling a 3 week old M8 with not a nick, scratch or ding. He had hardly used it and rated it as "like new". It had full warranty, filter voucher, paperwork, boxes, everything. He had an 100% positive rating. His bidding started $500 below retail and he did not get a single bid.

 

A little disturbing if you purchase an M8 with the idea, that like most Leica gear, it will hold its resale value for a good long time.

 

Perhaps, it is the admittedly hefty price and most individual sellers don't take credit cards which may knock out some potential buyers, but most sellers accept Paypal these days which lets you pay via CC. Others may not want to risk buying a "used" item regardless of the stated condition for such a pricey item. A savings of $500 may not be enough to run the risk, slight though it may be.

 

Anyone have any other theories?

[johnwolf]

Tony,

 

I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn't buy used to save $500 on a $5000 body. If you can afford $4500, why not go the rest of the way for new? My guess is most folks think this way, too.

 

And then there's the fact that we've seen plenty of Leica gear fraud on Ebay, some reported on this forum.

 

Out of curiosity, I looked at completed M8 July listings. A handful have sold -- generally in the range of $4000 to 4300.

 

John

[gdi]

You always take a risk with buying used - for $500 I would go new, mainly because you really can't be sure if the warranty will be honored on a second hand unit. I understand that the warranty is not transferrable...

[farnz]

Tony,

 

I'd guess that the risk of the deal going sour with that kind of money is likely to put a lot of people off although escrow services would lower the risk. Or perhaps there's concern about complications with the Leica Passport?

 

It may just be that not many prospective M8 purchasers are looking for M8s on eBay; my guess is that most will choose to buy through a registered Leica dealer.

 

A starting bid only $500 below retail for a used M8 doesn't seem worth the risk. If someone's prepared to lay out $4,200(?) for a used M8 then they're more likely to bite the bullet and lay out the price of a new one - it's only another 10% and you get full Passport and Leica backup.

 

Just my thrupence ha'penny worth.

 

Pete

 

Looks like I've cross posted with John and Gary.

[jaapv]

I have noticed recently that used M8's don't seem to sell very well on Ebay even though they appear to have decent starting bids or "buy it now" prices. The last half dozen that have been put up for bids have failed to generate any bids at all. I can understand if bids didn't reach the reserve price set, but M8's of late are not getting any bids at all and yet they are in mint or like new condition. One guy was selling a 3 week old M8 with not a nick, scratch or ding. He had hardly used it and rated it as "like new". It had full warranty, filter voucher, paperwork, boxes, everything. He had an 100% positive rating. His bidding started $500 below retail and he did not get a single bid.

 

A little disturbing if you purchase an M8 with the idea, that like most Leica gear, it will hold its resale value for a good long time.

 

Perhaps, it is the admittedly hefty price and most individual sellers don't take credit cards which may knock out some potential buyers, but most sellers accept Paypal these days which lets you pay via CC. Others may not want to risk buying a "used" item regardless of the stated condition for such a pricey item. A savings of $500 may not be enough to run the risk, slight though it may be.

 

Anyone have any other theories?

 

An MP of similar description probably wouldn't sell either....

[1234]

"It had full warranty" and "that like most Leica gear, it will hold its resale value for a good long time" are two presumptions of yours that have no basis at all to justify your beliefs. There is no warranty to a buyer on eBay and no such valuation history of old digital equipment of any kind.

[martinb]

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They're often asking to much or set the start price to high. I've seen auctions were they sell for quite much, but that's when the seller has a low start and reserve price, attracting more people.

But if I was about to buy an used body I would want at least 20-30% off the msrp. It's not hard to find new M8's today.

[glenerrolrd]

The biggest issue is that Leica warranties can not be transferred to the new owner.

[leicapfile]

However "Mint" or even "NIB", I doubt that one could find any digital camera, with or with out a Red Dot, sell on e-bay or otherwise for 90% of it's MSRP. Especially given the teething problems the M8 has endured. Few of us purchase $4,000 + items with no warranty.

 

It's simply the pace of advancement in digital photography.

 

And/if when the M8.2, or M9 arrives, one should be happy to get 50-60% of MSRP for their M8. Even less when inflation is factored in.

 

Jerry

[ttriolo]

However "Mint" or even "NIB", I doubt that one could find any digital camera, with or with out a Red Dot, sell on e-bay or otherwise for 90% of it's MSRP. Especially given the teething problems the M8 has endured. Few of us purchase $4,000 + items with no warranty.

 

It's simply the pace of advancement in digital photography.

 

And/if when the M8.2, or M9 arrives, one should be happy to get 50-60% of MSRP for their M8. Even less when inflation is factored in.

 

Jerry

 

That prediction is probably pretty close with respect to resale towards an M9 whenever that day arrives. I wonder how much of that devaluation will be attributed to the rapid pace of digital advancement or will it be mainly due to the M8's well publicized teething problems. Having watched my Canon DSLR's resale value plummet to near 50% levels in 2+ years, it's easy to see that the future is going to be much more volatile and expensive for us all.

[Alberti]

When I bought my M8 my wife was so kind to ask the seller what the price was after we left the shop. I amounted to half the price. She had the face of the most expensive hour of her life...

And in fact I believe it, the M8 is marvelous but I did find spots not dust on the sensor within a week. Yes meticulous, no dents, no dings but just those things on every image . OK I will clean it one day, OK, I thought it was plastic from old rear caps. replaced them. No new big spots came after 5.000 pictures, but small ones that only show up at F22. So 50% off is very reasonable.

We are specifically prone to parts and dust (some add lubricant from the shutter...) Specifically if you replace lenses every 10-30 minutes.

 

It is not just the use factor. It is also cost of hardware. Our sensor and shutter plus a previous software package was double the price two years before the M8 came. Look back and see a pricetag of € 39.000 for a 2.000x3.000 pixel Kodak DCS-660 in 1991. That was 'our experimental' platform as I see it:D .

Don't wait though - you'll loose a lot of fun. Please don't go short on our 'beloved' manufacturer. They 'add value' to keep the price tag up in the same price corner.

[jaapv]

When I bought my M8 my wife was so kind to ask the seller what the price was after we left the shop. I amounted to half the price. She had the face of the most expensive hour of her life...

Are you sure? Never bought a new car? Figure out what that first mile costs....

[masjah]

The biggest issue is that Leica warranties can not be transferred to the new owner.

 

Is that really the case? Whenever I've bought R system gear second-hand with unexpired warranty, I've simply sent the cards in to MK, with a sales receipt to verify my bona fide ownership, and I've had the warranty re-registered in my name without question. Is the M8 different in this respect?

[George61d]

Welcome to the digital age..I went to trade in my D2X recently for an M8. Its in Mint condition cost nearly €5000 here in Ireland. I was offered 700 for it in one shop and 1100 in another, a third would not give me any money for it at all.

 

As to buying an M8 on ebay. You only have to read this forum to see that a very large percentage of the posts are about faults with the M8, particularly the early ones. So why buy one on ebay and take the warranty risks etc.

[jaapv]

Is that really the case? Whenever I've bought R system gear second-hand with unexpired warranty, I've simply sent the cards in to MK, with a sales receipt to verify my bona fide ownership, and I've had the warranty re-registered in my name without question. Is the M8 different in this respect?

 

 

No- the warranty is transferable - and worldwide.

[marknorton]

I'm quite sure that the M8 will follow virtually all other electronic products and be beyond economic repair in a few years. The cost of, say, replacing the sensor or the shutter will be more than the residual value of the camera.

[jonoslack]

No- the warranty is transferable - and worldwide.

HI Jaap

I hope you're well.

This is certainly the case for cameras bought in Europe or the UK - is it also true for cameras bought in the US?

[jaapv]

I'm quite sure that the M8 will follow virtually all other electronic products and be beyond economic repair in a few years. The cost of, say, replacing the sensor or the shutter will be more than the residual value of the camera.

 

 

Depends on what Leica does, Mark. If they give it a long production run, which they can as there is no competition and (*getting out my crystal ball*) no dramatic quality jump in sensor technology on the horizon, used prices could stay pretty high. If they decide to do sensor upgrade with the possibility of a retrofit -I would not put it past them- that would affect used prices too. Most "upgrades" of DSLR's until now were in the areas the M8 does not even enter, like autofocus, design, fps, etc. Basically there is not very much progression on a sensor level between a Canon D60 and a 30D, for instance.

The rangefinder and shutter part of the M8 seems to be rather future-proof, anyway.

[newyorkone]

Digital bodies...only NEW for me.

 

Also, I could care less about the next version because I couldn't be happier with the current one. You want to talk about issues, my two 5D's had plenty. IMHO, I think the M8 issues have been blown WAY out of proportion.

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Hallo,

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[dante]

If Leica keeps jacking up the price of new M8s (to what, $6000?), you are going to see a lot more M8s selling on Ebay for close to today's MSRP.