Moving to S 006 from Sony mirrorless

[otto.f]

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I didn’t talk about investing, just about a good bargain for a S006 and it being worthwhile to let the sensor replaced. And I think sensor technology has reached its ceiling in the sense that more Mp starts to become ridiculous. (Colorwise though, there’s a lot to be gained)

[geetee1972]

14 hours ago, Sarnian said:

Yes, particularly as I wouldn't be charged VAT (as a Channel Islands resident) so it would be a straight £2,048.

I'm going back and forth on this as I saw a 007 go for £3,500 on eBay quite recently (although they generally go for c.£5,000). So... £2,800 in total for a 006 with a new sensor or c.£5,000 for a secondhand 007. Decisions, decisions! 

Ah the absence of VAT. I will miss Guernsey (not sure if I mentioned this but I'm in the process of divorcing from my wife and since it is she who is originally from there, the reason to visit has sadly disappeared! I know there's nothing stopping me from visiting but it would seem a little odd, like I'm invading her territory and we know how the islanders feel about being occupied).

Anyway back to the 006. I think if you were inclined to buy a 007 and saw one for £3k that would be the easiest buying decision you ever made. Thats' a scarily low price and someone has taken a particularly big hit in selling their 007 for such a low price. I can't see the prices of CCD sensor Leicas climbing any time soon; maybe they will in the far future in the same way that we are only now seeing film cameras appreciate almost 20 years since they ceased to be made but that's a heck of a long time to speculate. I'd still say get it replaced though and then shoot it like you would a film camera (which is how I work with the 007 anyway; I shoot at ISO400 95% of the time and frequently default to using a tripod and light meter).

[Sailronin]

To the OP,

I love the rendering of the CCD sensor in both my M9 and S(006), they seem more "film like" than the results from CMOS sensor IMO.  But as mentioned above look for a body with a replaced sensor and lenses with new focus motors.  Both my M9 and S(006) have had to have sensor replacement surgery, both were done at no charge by Leica but that program has long since expired. Two of four S lenses have had to have focus motor replacement at a cost of about $500 USD each.  Most frustrating is the turnaround time with the S(006) being with Leica for over six months (unavailable for family vacation in Europe) and lenses gone for three months.  Have a second system (my fall back is film) to keep shooting if the S is in the shop.

When the system works, it's files are gorgeous, when it works...

Edited November 27, 2019 by Sailronin

[ropo54]

1 hour ago, Sailronin said:

To the OP,

I love the rendering of the CCD sensor in both my M9 and S(006), they seem more "film like" than the results from CMOS sensor IMO.  But as mentioned above look for a body with a replaced sensor and lenses with new focus motors.  Both my M9 and S(006) have had to have sensor replacement surgery, both were done at no charge by Leica but that program has long since expired. Two of four S lenses have had to have focus motor replacement at a cost of about $500 USD each.  Most frustrating is the turnaround time with the S(006) being with Leica for over six months (unavailable for family vacation in Europe) and lenses gone for three months.  Have a second system (my fall back is film) to keep shooting if the S is in the shop.

When the system works, it's files are gorgeous, when it works...

I have read about your crappy experience in another thread, and IMO Leica should take care of all AF repairs gratis, as a lens failure due to manufacturing defect should be on them.

For what it is worth - there are so many superb deals on pre-owned S lenses these days, that for an additional $300-500 for AF repair on any given lens it still might make financial sense to acquire it. (And they do work quite nicely as primes for the SL line, albeit with an adapter).  

The coming S3 may soon firm up the secondary lens market, as well. 

[otto.f]

4 minutes ago, ropo54 said:

Leica should take care of all AF repairs gratis

+1. Ridiculous for such a camera that was introduced as THE camera for fashion and other commercial purposes that

- this is not within warranty and

- that it takes so long.

Who was calling this a professional camera?

The Leica S-System was conceived from the ground up as a purely digital camera system and was built with the precise needs of professional photographers in mind.

[Sarnian]

5 hours ago, Sailronin said:

lenses gone for three months.

My Elmarit 30mm hasn't been posted back to me yet after having its auto focus motor upgraded but is Leica's turnaround time improving..?

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Edited November 27, 2019 by Sarnian

[helged]

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4 minutes ago, Sarnian said:

My Elmarit 30mm hasn't been posted back to me yet after having its auto focus motor upgraded but is Leica's turnaround time improving..?

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

In my experience, two weeks stay at Leica (as in your case) is as fast as it possibly could be. Add shipping/customs in both ends, and the whole affair may take +/- one month. I guess pros can get faster service. For me, one month is acceptable, three plus months too long.  

[otto.f]

A pro is someone who has paid a pro price in my opinion 

[helged]

5 minutes ago, otto.f said:

A pro is someone who has paid a pro price in my opinion 

[Sarnian]

16 hours ago, helged said:

In my experience, two weeks stay at Leica (as in your case) is as fast as it possibly could be. Add shipping/customs in both ends, and the whole affair may take +/- one month. I guess pros can get faster service. For me, one month is acceptable, three plus months too long.  

Now "Pending for shipment".

Hoping to get it back and sell it on before Christmas. Amazing lens (now with a new auto focus motor!) but I can't afford to keep both the Elmarit 30mm and the Vario Elmar 30-90mm.  

[helged]

21 minutes ago, Sarnian said:

Now "Pending for shipment".

Hoping to get it back and sell it on before Christmas. Amazing lens (now with a new auto focus motor!) but I can't afford to keep both the Elmarit 30mm and the Vario Elmar 30-90mm.  

+1! (I have 4 lenses in for motor replacement; 1 with motor failure, 3 that I want to get updated, just in case...).

[Sailronin]

It appears the repair turn around time has greatly improved!  Congratulations. 

I don't mind the $500 for a motor repair on an older lens and would be delighted with a two to three week turn around on my next Leica repair. It was having gear out of service for multiple months that soured me on the S system.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Sailronin

[Jeff S]

3 minutes ago, Sailronin said:

It appears the repair turn around time has greatly improved!  Congratulations. 

 

I wonder about recent experiences for US customers, who in the past seemed to endure disproportionately long waits, many months in some cases.

Jeff

[ropo54]

I'm also wondering whether Leica NJ does the AF repair, or must the lens be returned to Germany?  Thanks.

[Jeff S]

57 minutes ago, ropo54 said:

I'm also wondering whether Leica NJ does the AF repair, or must the lens be returned to Germany?  Thanks.

It goes to Wetzlar.  But some have sent lenses to NJ first for forwarding (sometimes through their dealer, I think), only to experience long delays.

Jeff

Edited November 28, 2019 by Jeff S

[Sailronin]

Originally I was instructed that all the US repairs had to first go to New Jersey to be evaluated and then shipped to Germany for actual repair.  Once Germany looked at the lens they informed NJ of the cost which was then relayed to me for approval.  This added delay to an already long process.  My quickest turnaround for any Leica repair was three months (this year with 2 S lenses), longest one week shy of nine months for M9 sensor replacement several years ago.  

[BernardC]

On 11/27/2019 at 11:30 AM, otto.f said:

+1. Ridiculous for such a camera that was introduced as THE camera for fashion and other commercial purposes that

- this is not within warranty and

- that it takes so long.

I understand your frustration (been there), but the lenses are warranted for five years. That's unusually long compared to other brands, and certainly longer than a professional would go without servicing.

The turnaround time is a different matter. Let's hope that Leica does better with the S3. The least they should do is have enough loaners for in-warranty cameras, and for (hypothetical) "Leica Pro Services" members. What keeps the S from being taken seriously in North America is the uncertainty and lack of support. It reminds me of Agfa, back in the day. They had the best product, but you could never be sure that it would be available from week to week. Kodak was good enough, and always in stock.

[alan.y]

On 11/29/2019 at 12:48 AM, Sailronin said:

Originally I was instructed that all the US repairs had to first go to New Jersey to be evaluated and then shipped to Germany for actual repair.  Once Germany looked at the lens they informed NJ of the cost which was then relayed to me for approval.  This added delay to an already long process.  My quickest turnaround for any Leica repair was three months (this year with 2 S lenses), longest one week shy of nine months for M9 sensor replacement several years ago.  

My quickest was about a week for S lenses (this was when I was living in Berlin--I think no coincidence). My longest was six months for a cracked S2 sensor.

I understand sensors can take very long because they are produced in batches. I can't imagine Leica filling too many orders for CCD sensors nowadays.

[davidmknoble]

On 11/26/2019 at 2:53 PM, Deliberate1 said:

No snarkiness intended, but is there any precedence for a digital camera actually increasing in value. And by that I mean, it has acquired some illusive collectable status reflected in an across the board price enhancement. And by increase in value, I am not referring to what is colorfully referred to as a "dead cat bounce," when stocks rebound marginally after a big hit. Rather, I mean what happens with certain collectable bodies and Leica glass.

I wouldn't count on any camera being worth more than the new price, but I have done well with some used equipment.  Depending on what you pay, the condition and what the exchange rate is (if you are not paying euros), then you can make some increase in value.  Selling it and realizing that increase is tough unless it is a lot!  In the early 2000's  I was able to buy some used equipment and trade it later at a profit, but that was unique to the exchange rate and what I paid...  Besides, we buy equipment to use it, not to store it and sell it, unless you happen to own a Leica Store!

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[davidmknoble]

On 11/28/2019 at 11:48 AM, Sailronin said:

Originally I was instructed that all the US repairs had to first go to New Jersey to be evaluated and then shipped to Germany for actual repair.  Once Germany looked at the lens they informed NJ of the cost which was then relayed to me for approval.  This added delay to an already long process.  My quickest turnaround for any Leica repair was three months (this year with 2 S lenses), longest one week shy of nine months for M9 sensor replacement several years ago.  

I send mine to the Leica Store I purchased it from and they get straight to Germany.  I sent mine in after a week of hard weather use in Iceland and it took about 2-3 weeks from my door, to Leica Store in the US, to Germany and back to my door.  That has been better than sending M equipment to NJ, although I understand it has gotten better...