Leica SL2 and flash

[caissa]

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No idea, no experience, so I think it is important to collect data on flash usage on the SL2.

In a review I read that the flash hot shoe is different (from Leica hot shoe and from Lumix S hot shoe). Is this true ?  Up until now the PrioLite system could be used to get 1/8000 s sync. (Special Leica Transmitter, special flashes) A new hot shoe would probably also disable that ...

So please collect here all bits of info about flash usage with the SL2

Edited November 21, 2019 by caissa

[caissa]

Is there an online manual that describes flash with the SL2 ?

Edited November 21, 2019 by caissa

[caissa]

Ok, the manuals are now online in the usual places, e.g.   https://de.leica-camera.com/Service-Support/Support/Downloads?category=128327&subcategory=&type=&language=all

[sillbeers15]

The SL2 hotshoe and flash protocol is identical to the SL. It differs completely from Panasonic S1/R which shares the hotshoe layout with it’s micro four third siblings.

Leica has it’s own off camera flash system OEM by Nissin. So the 165Ws Nissin MG10 is the most powerful off camera flash that supports the Leica SFC1 commander. Yes you have HSS support but only in TTL mode. The manual mode does not work on SL & M10 as the trigger will not fire camera at HSS manual mode. However for SL2, it still does not work, except the camera triggers but the flash will not go off in HSS/manual mode.

[kuau]

On 11/21/2019 at 10:42 AM, sillbeers15 said:

The SL2 hotshoe and flash protocol is identical to the SL. It differs completely from Panasonic S1/R which shares the hotshoe layout with it’s micro four third siblings.

Leica has it’s own off camera flash system OEM by Nissin. So the 165Ws Nissin MG10 is the most powerful off camera flash that supports the Leica SFC1 commander. Yes you have HSS support but only in TTL mode. The manual mode does not work on SL & M10 as the trigger will not fire camera at HSS manual mode. However for SL2, it still does not work, except the camera triggers but the flash will not go off in HSS/manual mode

So I assume the the wireless commander that come with the .Nissin MG10 Will not work with the SL2 and you have to use the Leica SFC1?

 

[hoppyman]

And as expected works flawlessly with the Elinchrom Skyport wireless control with default setting of “end of exposure” I used 1/200th for several hundred frames yesterday. Haven’t tried anything else.

[albireo_double]

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15 minutes ago, hoppyman said:

And as expected works flawlessly with the Elinchrom Skyport wireless control with default setting of “end of exposure” I used 1/200th for several hundred frames yesterday. Haven’t tried anything else.

Which version of the Skyport trigger are you using? The Transmitter Plus or one of the dedicated Transmitter Pro versions? If the former, it should work pretty much with any camera out there, but not offer HS/HSS or TTL. It would be great if Elinchrom could provide a Leica version of the Pro trigger, to do High Sync when shooting outside. They now offer a Pro trigger for every system other than Leica (even Pentax....).

Edited December 4, 2019 by albireo_double

[hofo100]

vor 24 Minuten schrieb hoppyman:

And as expected works flawlessly with the Elinchrom Skyport wireless control with default setting of “end of exposure” I used 1/200th for several hundred frames yesterday. Haven’t tried anything else.

This one was taken with an older (5 years approx) skyport at 1/250. shot an entire set with that sync without problems.

Am 2.12.2019 um 21:38 schrieb hofo100:

Sneak preview  - my wife's wish for Christmas are large prints with new photos of our kids, and since she is always supportive when I suffer from another GAS attack I am more than happy to execute accordingly. And as she does not visit this forum I can show here already.. (Summicron 90SL, 2 Elinchrom flash heads: 1 to light the background, and main light from left with large Octabox reflector)

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[nryn]

I just finished a 4-day shoot for a book with an SL2, SF C1 and 3 flashes: an SF 60 and two MG-10s. I have wanted for some time to get away from bringing my huge strobes everywhere. A few notes:

• The MG-10s are excellent flashes and work well with the SF C1 and SL2.
• As reported in this thread and elsewhere, the SL2 has some hiccups when using with a flash:
  • I couldn't get the flashes to fire consistently in A or S modes, nor could I figure out the conditions under which they either would or would not fire. It wasn't sync speed, TTL vs. M, or anything like that. It just seemed random, both in my testing before the shoot and whenever I tried to use A or S during the shoot. It wasn't a big deal--I usually expose manually when using flash anyway. But it's strange and I suspect it's a bug. 
  • HSS only works in TTL.
  • I don't find TTL on the SL2 very good. Shooting from the same location, same exposure, same ambient light--I got exposures all over the place. Like with exposure mode on the camera, I went to manual on the flashes as well.
• The SF C1 is a nice piece of kit. I've used a number of remote triggers such as this, which allow you to control individual flash output independently, and I found this controller intuitive and slick. I like that it is low-profile and well-made.
• The SF 60 is OK; I ended up using it occasionally as a bounce flash to remove shadows and relied on the MG-10s for primary flash (to counter some strong sunlight from windows).

Pretty happy with the results and extremely happy with the portability of this lighting kit. I don't think the Einsteins will come out of the drawer very often anymore.

[bsmith]

SL2 works perfect with Profoto A1 and C1+

Just use on Manual like you always should anyways.

[budjames]

4 hours ago, bsmith said:

SL2 works perfect with Profoto A1 and C1+

Just use on Manual like you always should anyways.

Did you use the SF C1 to trigger the Profoto A1 flash? What modes does this support?

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

[hoppyman]

On 12/5/2019 at 6:13 AM, albireo_double said:

Which version of the Skyport trigger are you using? The Transmitter Plus or one of the dedicated Transmitter Pro versions? If the former, it should work pretty much with any camera out there, but not offer HS/HSS or TTL. It would be great if Elinchrom could provide a Leica version of the Pro trigger, to do High Sync when shooting outside. They now offer a Pro trigger for every system other than Leica (even Pentax....).

I just have the Plus and used the earlier version before that.

[chicagophoto]

The original Air Remote for Profoto works just fine with Profoto lights and the SL2

[bsmith]

22 hours ago, budjames said:

Did you use the SF C1 to trigger the Profoto A1 flash? What modes does this support?

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

Hi, I use the Profoto Nikon Air remote on manual. I also use a Cello HSA-PVU hot shoe to isolate only the center pin. The Vello also gives me a traditional PC connector. You can also put the C1+ on a Leica Camera hotshoe then fire the C1+ thru the "air remote " in your pocket by connecting a cable . (pc- hotshoe) It's very handy to have a light weight low power Profoto flash when mixing low light and high ISO. (A1 doesn't go low enough to shoot 3200 iso at f2 etc)   The C1+ can also "flash" tungsten to daylight via your phone app.  Extremely convenient !!    Wish Profoto would also add green /magenta leds  so we could "flash" fluorescent color tints.  

Edited December 10, 2019 by bsmith

[sillbeers15]

On 12/9/2019 at 9:58 AM, etherfarm said:

I just finished a 4-day shoot for a book with an SL2, SF C1 and 3 flashes: an SF 60 and two MG-10s. I have wanted for some time to get away from bringing my huge strobes everywhere. A few notes:

• The MG-10s are excellent flashes and work well with the SF C1 and SL2.
• As reported in this thread and elsewhere, the SL2 has some hiccups when using with a flash:
  • I couldn't get the flashes to fire consistently in A or S modes, nor could I figure out the conditions under which they either would or would not fire. It wasn't sync speed, TTL vs. M, or anything like that. It just seemed random, both in my testing before the shoot and whenever I tried to use A or S during the shoot. It wasn't a big deal--I usually expose manually when using flash anyway. But it's strange and I suspect it's a bug. 
  • HSS only works in TTL.
  • I don't find TTL on the SL2 very good. Shooting from the same location, same exposure, same ambient light--I got exposures all over the place. Like with exposure mode on the camera, I went to manual on the flashes as well.
• The SF C1 is a nice piece of kit. I've used a number of remote triggers such as this, which allow you to control individual flash output independently, and I found this controller intuitive and slick. I like that it is low-profile and well-made.
• The SF 60 is OK; I ended up using it occasionally as a bounce flash to remove shadows and relied on the MG-10s for primary flash (to counter some strong sunlight from windows).

Pretty happy with the results and extremely happy with the portability of this lighting kit. I don't think the Einsteins will come out of the drawer very often anymore.

I am also using MG10 & SF60. As you have mentioned that HSS only work in TTL mode. ie The camera shutter release trigger will not fire on SL when Manual is selected with a shutter speed above sync speed of 1/250 Sec. However on SL2, the same will allow camera shutter release to be triggered just no flash when flash selected on Manual and shutter speed of camera is above sync speed.

You also mentioned you do not like to use TTL and therefore in A& S mode the shutter speed could have exceeded sync speed?

[nryn]

6 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

I am also using MG10 & SF60. As you have mentioned that HSS only work in TTL mode. ie The camera shutter release trigger will not fire on SL when Manual is selected with a shutter speed above sync speed of 1/250 Sec. However on SL2, the same will allow camera shutter release to be triggered just no flash when flash selected on Manual and shutter speed of camera is above sync speed.

You also mentioned you do not like to use TTL and therefore in A& S mode the shutter speed could have exceeded sync speed?

It has been a few days since I put everything away but as I recall, in A and S mode I never shot above 1/250. There were definitely instances where I was shooting at very slow shutter speeds--say 1/30, and could not get the flash to fire. 

I didn't want to spend a lot of time testing new gear. I usually don't bring new gear to a shoot, actually, but I knew that in the end I could run everything in manual and make it work (which is what I did and it worked well). As I mentioned, I didn't find the shots I took with TTL to be very compelling but there could be a variety of reasons for that.

[sillbeers15]

14 hours ago, etherfarm said:

It has been a few days since I put everything away but as I recall, in A and S mode I never shot above 1/250. There were definitely instances where I was shooting at very slow shutter speeds--say 1/30, and could not get the flash to fire. 

I didn't want to spend a lot of time testing new gear. I usually don't bring new gear to a shoot, actually, but I knew that in the end I could run everything in manual and make it work (which is what I did and it worked well). As I mentioned, I didn't find the shots I took with TTL to be very compelling but there could be a variety of reasons for that.

When I started using the SF60 & SFC1 I ran into the same intermittent issues. Now that I understand the the HSS on TTL only limitation, I only use TTL settings and I do not run into the same problems on out door shoots. If I’m only shooting indoors. I set to manual Flash as the lighting variation isn’t as great as outdoors ambient light.

[nryn]

44 minutes ago, sillbeers15 said:

When I started using the SF60 & SFC1 I ran into the same intermittent issues. Now that I understand the the HSS on TTL only limitation, I only use TTL settings and I do not run into the same problems on out door shoots. If I’m only shooting indoors. I set to manual Flash as the lighting variation isn’t as great as outdoors ambient light.

I completely agree (with the caveat that some indoor settings can have even greater light variability). This shoot was entirely indoors and lighting was largely used to counter strong natural light coming from east-facing windows). Not only was TTL giving me poor results (it has on other lighting systems and may just be a matter of "getting to know" the peculiarities of lighting with the SL2, but I didn't want to do that during a shoot), the intermittent firing in some exposure modes made me switch to M on the camera and on the SF C1 pretty quickly.

The only reason I would have wanted TTL to work well was a few situations where getting reliable HSS firing would help me freeze action. I worked around that problem. 

I also had some odd white balance issues—some photos were incredibly warm and some were not. Not sure if that was the flash or the camera (I suspect the camera, as I encountered this issue several times when I had turned the flashes off). I'll have to go through EXIF and figure that one out before my next shoot. For this one it doesn't matter so much; the book will be printed in black and white.

These issues aside, I'm extremely happy with the setup (and the results), but I'm also very comfortable doing all these things manually. I think someone requiring or used to a more automated setup would be pulling their hair out, as I think there are some bugs with the way that flash output is handled on the SL2 (though really those bugs may in fact be attributed to any or all of the parts of the chain--SF C1, flashes, etc.).

[sillbeers15]

2 hours ago, etherfarm said:

I completely agree (with the caveat that some indoor settings can have even greater light variability). This shoot was entirely indoors and lighting was largely used to counter strong natural light coming from east-facing windows). Not only was TTL giving me poor results (it has on other lighting systems and may just be a matter of "getting to know" the peculiarities of lighting with the SL2, but I didn't want to do that during a shoot), the intermittent firing in some exposure modes made me switch to M on the camera and on the SF C1 pretty quickly.

The only reason I would have wanted TTL to work well was a few situations where getting reliable HSS firing would help me freeze action. I worked around that problem. 

I also had some odd white balance issues—some photos were incredibly warm and some were not. Not sure if that was the flash or the camera (I suspect the camera, as I encountered this issue several times when I had turned the flashes off). I'll have to go through EXIF and figure that one out before my next shoot. For this one it doesn't matter so much; the book will be printed in black and white.

These issues aside, I'm extremely happy with the setup (and the results), but I'm also very comfortable doing all these things manually. I think someone requiring or used to a more automated setup would be pulling their hair out, as I think there are some bugs with the way that flash output is handled on the SL2 (though really those bugs may in fact be attributed to any or all of the parts of the chain--SF C1, flashes, etc.).

Yeah, I did also encountered the odd white balance once in a while and I could not figure out why?

My experience with the MG10 is also much more consistent and reliable over 'missing flash' when compared to SF60s that I have. My experience was those flashes were pushed too hard that they overheat and shut down. I had to let them cool off (short time though) and turn them on once again.

These days, MG10 is my main and the SF60s I only use them as 2nd and 3rd light source with lower output from them.

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[lx1713]

I encounter that WB issue pretty often particularly for events. I think the camera switches between AWB (because flash has been triggered and therefore no power left for another flash assisted shot) and Flash WB which is balanced to flash fill (I think).

I don't get this effect with Canon flashes on manual control as there isn't any communications between flash and camera

Edited December 17, 2019 by lx1713