Mr.Q Posted November 28, 2019 Share #41 Posted November 28, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) 2 minutes ago, sillbeers15 said: Finer things in life are not measured by quantity. Thanks for the life lesson, Confucius. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 28, 2019 Posted November 28, 2019 Hi Mr.Q, Take a look here Would you now buy an SL for $3500 or an SL2 for $6000?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sillbeers15 Posted November 28, 2019 Share #42 Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Mr.Q said: Thanks for the life lesson, Confucius. You also need to pay $100,000 for a Toyota Camry in Singapore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michali Posted November 28, 2019 Share #43 Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Artin said: diamond vs Zircon Ruby vs Garnet Safire vs Tanzanite Emerald vs Jade Leica vs Panasonic get the picture ????? Your comments are unnecessarily condescending. I think you'll find that most people here do get it. Beyond affordability it's a question of what works for each individual, how they choose to spend their money, and their perception of value. Be it in a premium or a budget brand; it's all very subjective. Edited November 28, 2019 by michali 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Q Posted November 28, 2019 Share #44 Posted November 28, 2019 2 hours ago, sillbeers15 said: You also need to pay $100,000 for a Toyota Camry in Singapore. Still a terrible comparison as Toyota and Mercedes shares no common parts. VW Touareg and Porsche Cayenne would have been much better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted November 28, 2019 Share #45 Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) The real problem of SL and SL2 is the flash choice. TTL and/or HSS are almost in desert territory for Leica's. Their branded flash are just okay but über expensive. However Leica's TTL is so bad. That their flash system does not worth any penny. At least with S1 or S1R you get all the flash/strobe selection you ever wanted. Does user interface trumps better lighting ? I am really not sure. This is my major complaint about Leica, and one the reason why I am ready to jump ship. Of course using flash in manual is ok. TTL is a non necessary luxury. But HSS can be very handy. If only SL2 could use S lenses with CS. The problem would be mitigated. But their leaf shutter only work with S cameras. What a pity. Leica should abandoned its flash system and unify it with Panasonic/Olympus. m4/3 shares the same lens mount and flash protocol. L-mount should do the same, instead of having Leica, Panasonic and Sigma with their own uncompatible hotshoe. Very stupid move. Worst is the fact that Leica is already selling cameras with Panasonic flash protocol : D-Lux & V-Lux. So why not going the extra mile and dumb its own system for all other cameras. I am pretty sure that the bottom line of Leica flash system is very very low. It only gives frustration to customers. We are in 2019, nobody cares about buying camera branding flash anymore. So many superior third party options now. By the way Jade is superior to Emerald in China. 😉 Edited November 28, 2019 by nicci78 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillbeers15 Posted November 28, 2019 Share #46 Posted November 28, 2019 24 minutes ago, Mr.Q said: Still a terrible comparison as Toyota and Mercedes shares no common parts. VW Touareg and Porsche Cayenne would have been much better. True. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcatral14 Posted November 28, 2019 Share #47 Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Got a used SL for $2k 🙂 Depending on how this experiment goes, I'll get the SL2 next year 😉 Edited November 28, 2019 by jcatral14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raid Amin Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share #48 Posted November 28, 2019 Good for you. Getting an SL for $2000 is a very low price. This sounds very encouraging. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcatral14 Posted November 28, 2019 Share #49 Posted November 28, 2019 32 minutes ago, Raid Amin said: Good for you. Getting an SL for $2000 is a very low price. This sounds very encouraging. Thank you 🙂 I think $2k is the bottom end and 2-2.5k is more the norm. Good luck on your search! Happy Thanksgiving! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raid Amin Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share #50 Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) Happy Thanksgiving! Thank you. I will look for a clean SL or way undervalued used M10. Edited November 28, 2019 by Raid Amin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted November 28, 2019 Share #51 Posted November 28, 2019 Not me. Can't speak to the SL2 vs S1R, but I'll sell you my M10. The SL2, at least with a Karbe prime attached, is one very, very special camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raid Amin Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share #52 Posted November 28, 2019 So you are about to switch from using an M10 to an SL2. Why are you feeling this way? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anickpick Posted November 28, 2019 Share #53 Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) ... because the SL Crons on a SL2 take it to another level - it‘s hard go back. Edited November 28, 2019 by anickpick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raid Amin Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share #54 Posted November 28, 2019 So an L mount Summicron is also needed here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo98 Posted November 28, 2019 Share #55 Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Raid Amin said: So an L mount Summicron is also needed here. Yup... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raid Amin Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share #56 Posted November 28, 2019 How would compare an APO Summicron in M vs. L mount? Is the L Mount greatly superior optically? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anickpick Posted November 28, 2019 Share #57 Posted November 28, 2019 The M-APO Cron 75mm is a great lens with lovely rendering. The SL-APO Cron surpasses it visibly. closeup, its no contest - the SL lens is much better. I‘d say the SL lens combines the clarity of the M-Apo 50 with the lovely rendering of the M-APO 75 - and it does so over the whole frame. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raid Amin Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share #58 Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) If SL lenses could be mounted on M cameras, we would have a reasonable goal to target; get the lens first. Don't worry about getting an SL or SL2. However, SL lenses do not fit M cameras. If the SL APO 50/2 costs around $5000, then another &6000 are needed for an SL2 or $3000 for an SL. It would become "an\$9000 lens", so to speak. It is not worth it. This is just a hobby. Edited November 28, 2019 by Raid Amin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted November 28, 2019 Share #59 Posted November 28, 2019 13 hours ago, nicci78 said: The real problem of SL and SL2 is the flash choice. In other words, there really isn't much of a problem with the SL or SL2 😉 I don't know about anyone else, but I find that the need for TTL flash disappeared with digital. It's just so easy to take a test exposure, see if your ratios are correct, make any necessary tweaks, and start shooting. The distance to the ceiling rarely changes, so you don't have to make adjustments while you are in the same room. I guess some people like the HSS daylight flash look, but I never did. I only ever resort to that if the lighting ratio is completely out-of-control, and I can't move the subject. Same thing with direct on-camera flash, which had a recent resurgence. I'll bet those hip fashion photographers used manual flash and CS lenses, though, so it's irrelevant to Leica's TTL. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted November 28, 2019 Share #60 Posted November 28, 2019 5 hours ago, Raid Amin said: So you are about to switch from using an M10 to an SL2. Why are you feeling this way? Yes, at least for the time being. Whether or not I'll actual sell the 10 or 240 remains to be seen, but it certainly is under consideration at this point. Why? First is just the sheer pain of maintenance coupled with the wait times. I shoot 15 to 20K+ frames a year and the RF all too regularly requires tweaking. This coupled with the fact that my eye sight isn't what it used to be means its time to consider moving on from the Ms as my primary camera. Second, I bought into the M system not so much for the RF experience as for the breath of the optics and the palette they provide. The SL2 provides a bridge from past to future with the ability to shoot Mandler masterpieces right along side those of Karbe. I passed on the original SL as, at that time, while there was a little tingle, I was not sufficiently moved by the optics on offer. Beyond that, from an acuity standpoint, the original SL, from an M lens perspective, offered nothing over the M10 and so there was no incentive. Time has changed all that. The new Summicron primes are peerless, the files coming out of the SL2 are to die for, both from a resolution standpoint, but also, for what to my eye, seems natural, yet extraordinarily deep, subtle color. Some folks value the shooting experience to a point where they simply can't imagine shooting with anything other than an M. I fully respect that, but I'm totally about the final result; I'd use a razor blade for a shutter release if I thought it would result in a better photograph. Finally, the SL system is simply far more flexible. Beyond the new primes, one can now actually reasonably entertain the thought of shooting with long lenses, zooms, ultra-wides etc. Certainly, with the EVF, the M can as well, but it's far more cumbersome. And then there is IBIS. Up until last night, I could have cared less about it. After an hour shooting in the dark and rain, it was an absolute revelation. The ability to shoot at base ISO, handholding successfully with exposure times literally over a second... whoa. It opens up a new world in terms of what is possible. And that, BTW, is why, purely in retrospect, I would choose it over the original and if I found the price too steep, I'd buy a Pano. Why then for the time being? Well, I've no intention of selling my M optics and I continue to hold out hope that Leica will produce a native M mount, EVF-based camera. But that has never seemed all that likely and in any case it's not available today. There are still plenty of damn good reasons to shoot with an M, but with a few minor exceptions, they no longer seem to apply to me, at least as I see things today. YMMV, of course. All the best. 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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