How do you meter with your M-A?

[Mark II]

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How do people with an M-A typically meter their photographs? Do you use heuristics (sunny 16 etc), an external hand-held meter (Sekonic etc) or a hot-shoe mounted meter (Voightlander etc)?

Having passed on the idea of upgrading some lenses, I am now considering adding a second film body to my M7. I would have added a second M7, but second hand prices are absurd at the moment, and there is the concern about long term reliability. The MP looks like the next most practical option, but I much prefer the minimalist finish and viewfinder of the M-A in black chrome.

Ordinarily I would never have considered a meter-less camera, but the unpredictability of the M7 in low light (EV2 or less, at least with my M7) means that I have been increasingly shooting by estimating light by eye, and using a Sekonic meter to periodically validate my assumptions - effectively treating the M7 as an M-A but with some very distracting (and often misleading) metering displays.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Mark II
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[wattsy]

I meter using a combination of a Sekonic 308 (mostly incident but sometimes I flick the meter into reflective mode if I don't trust the incident reading) and experienced guesswork though I don't photograph much in the sort of light you probably do.

Interesting what you say about M7 prices. For some reason, I was looking at a Leica dealer's website earlier this week and noticed that they were selling a few, quite old, M7 bodies in the £2300 range. I too thought it was absurd but I guess the dealer knows their market.

Edited November 19, 2019 by wattsy

[adan]

Like Ian, I use a Sekonic 308 in reflected mode these days, aimed to slightly bias for shadow areas. That's for a 6x6 Mamiya 6 (whose internal meter - through the rangefinder optics - is easily fooled). I found out the 308 incident mode tended to underexpose neg films (high-light-biased for slides, as are most incident meters).

When I was using M4-2/P unmetered Leicas, I used a mix of Sunny 16 in sunlight, and the similar-sized Sekonic L-318 with the reflected tip (size of a flip-, not smart-, phone - fits easily in any pocket or the phone pouches of camera bags). For ISO 50-ish Velvia slide or Pan F B&W, I had the Colorado sunlight setting memorized and set as default (1/250 at between f/5.6-8).

Far in the distant past, I used the classic egg-shaped Sekonic L-28C2 (now the L-398A)  - at least it was/is photo-voltaic and requires no batteries.

Never even considered shoe-mount meters - my flash-shoe is permanently occupied by a 21mm viewfinder.

Edited November 19, 2019 by adan

[a.noctilux]

With meterless M, depending on the film loaded, I rely on my experience when use negative films but I keep some kind of lightmeter in one pocket.

The meter can be Voigtlander VCMeter II (pity that the ISO dial shift since it turns too easily ), or bigger Sekonic, Gossen, etc.

One of those meters is always used when I load with slide films for consistent density.

 

Here we can bet which one is loaded with Velvia 😉

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Edited November 19, 2019 by a.noctilux

[johnwolf]

Like you, I thought I might never get along with a meterless camera, but I've lately been using my M6 with a Sekonic L-208 in incident mode instead of the built-in meter. 

I carry the meter in my pocket and find it faster. I guess it depends on your subject matter, but I'm surprised how infrequently the reading needs to change in a day out shooting. 

I now feel I could get along swell with an M-A. 

John  

[logan2z]

I also use a Seikonic 308 with my M-A, although I'm getting reasonably good at estimating exposure settings without using the meter.  But I always carry it with me to validate my guesstimates.  

[jeffz]

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I use a Gossen Starlite in incident mode and my experience. It helps to shoot on type of film. Mine is TriX 400.

[Mark II]

I am using Sekonic 308 with the M7. I mostly use the same way as I use the M7's internal meter, using reflective mode to take a reading of something that looks representative for where I want the exposure. The 308 is nice at night because of the illuminated display, but ergonomically it is a something of a hassle to use quickly.

[i8z]

I use the Sekonic 308x with my m6ttl and Linhof 612. I also own the Voigtlander VC meter II but am always forgetting that I own it. 

[atournas]

The only meter-less camera I own is a Hasselblad. In the early days I used to carry a Sekonic L-398A (very convenient, no battery required) and meter incident light. Eventually experience and confidence built up. I now use Tri-X and Sunny 16; the film is so forgiving that I have no complaints with the results. Here's an example at 1/500 and f/5.6 if I recall correctly. 

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[spydrxx]

Occasionally I use a Gossen Luna-Pro, usually in the incident mode, but most often just the Sunny 16 guidelines. I do keep a New Jiffy calculator in my car for those unusual times when Sunny 16 isn't readily apparent and I've left the exposure meter at home, so I'm never at a loss.

[colint544]

Since nobody has yet suggested it, I'd say one of the free light meter apps for your phone. I've been using one for years, and it's always been spot on.

[RayD28]

Which app do you use?

[plaidshirts]

1 hour ago, RayD28 said:

Which app do you use?

I use Lightmate, https://apps.apple.com/us/app/lightmate/id791590935

It's very simple and intuitive to use.

[colint544]

I use this one. It was free, but I don't doubt there must be a lot to choose from

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[shirubadanieru]

If  you shoot portra, tri-x, hp5, etc you really don't need a meter. Just use the sunny 16 rule and meter ISO 400 at 200 in your head to avoid underexposure. I've shot dozens of rolls like this, never had any issues. Here's the settings I use below. Both are the same but the top one is if I want to change the aperture with a fixed shutter speed, and  the bottom is if I want to change the shutter speed with a fixed aperture (on top of that I have the lumu lightmeter app whenever I need to double check my exposure indoors) 

ISO 200 | Shutter Speed 1/1000 (-2) | 🌞Sunny at F8 ⛅️Cloudy at F4 🌴Shade at F2
ISO 200 | F8 | 🌞Sunny Shutter Speed 1/1000 ⛅️Cloudy SS1/250 🌴Shade SS1/60

Usually indoors I find that F2 and Shutter Speed 1/30 works well for most cases.

Hope it helps!

[lldd]

The best article I've seen about exposing film, using an external meter, is from Johnny Patience (http://www.johnnypatience.com/metering-for-film/).  Very applicable to the M-A.

[jamiealquiza]

I use the LUMU Light Meter app for ios. I usually meter once then adjust by estimation as the scene changes slightly. I find that Im not metering that often and get great results.

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[Dennis]

Lately, I'm using a Sekonic L-358 again, after many years been useless. Because I don't need a light meter anymore. I actually "guess" all the time, and I love it. It's all about risks, the excitement, and the pride of working like this. Why the light meter now if I don't use it? Nostalgia to use it. And after reading in this forum an interesting article about why NOT to use exposure compensation 🙂 , I decided to give a chance to shoot at a lower ISO and recovery two stops in postproduction. A super meditated technique to have an image with less noise, between the other things. I can step out of my comfort zone and try something new, forcing myself to use a light meter for a while (in order to get the perfect, but "different" exposure)
 
I always believed to get the right exposure for me at the moment, never thinking of what I'll do later. I guess the point is saving time while you are busy shooting, be more in the scene, and capturing a better moment. Without spending so much time on it. But yes, doing it well.

As you say above, the must start-point is Sunny 16, and from there, move backward. I usually set on my M10 ISO 100 | F/4 | 1/2000. Exposing for the highlights.
From there, two stops down for the shade scene (outdoor), and four stops down for the indoor lightly scene. And here you are at 1/125 ... awesome, right? And still taking advantage of the native ISO "performance" (if you can take full advantage of a balanced exposure) 
For the night shots, try to start with the basic (IMHO) ISO 3200 | F/2.8 | 1/60 ... It usually works fine. 

 

You have it all here for many situations 🙂

1. ISO 100 | F/4 | 1/2000
2. ISO 100 | F/4 | 1/500  (-2)
3. ISO 100 | F/4 | 1/125 (-2)
4. ISO 800 | F/4 | 1/60 (-4)
5. ISO3200 | F/2.8 | 1/60 (-3) 

Your total +/- 11 EV different scenes. But changing only a few numbers. Does it make sense?

[M.RB]

On 12/5/2019 at 1:59 AM, shirubadanieru said:

If  you shoot portra, tri-x, hp5, etc you really don't need a meter. Just use the sunny 16 rule and meter ISO 400 at 200 in your head to avoid underexposure. I've shot dozens of rolls like this, never had any issues. Here's the settings I use below. Both are the same but the top one is if I want to change the aperture with a fixed shutter speed, and  the bottom is if I want to change the shutter speed with a fixed aperture (on top of that I have the lumu lightmeter app whenever I need to double check my exposure indoors) 

ISO 200 | Shutter Speed 1/1000 (-2) | 🌞Sunny at F8 ⛅️Cloudy at F4 🌴Shade at F2
ISO 200 | F8 | 🌞Sunny Shutter Speed 1/1000 ⛅️Cloudy SS1/250 🌴Shade SS1/60

Usually indoors I find that F2 and Shutter Speed 1/30 works well for most cases.

Hope it helps!

I’m with this general approach. There really aren’t that many possibilities, especially if like me you tend to use 1/125 or 1/250 whenever possible unless it compromises the aperture you need for adequate DOF. 

I also use a IIIc in the same way. I do meter if it’s critical or unpredictable light but light is relatively predictable for everyday situations (they are every day after all.)

I think if you use a Sunny 16 approach you quickly realise that there are just a few frequently used settings perhaps, whereas with a meter there is a disconnect from the what you’re actually doing. It’s why I use an M-A personally anyhow, otherwise maybe a camera with a meter might be a better choice.