Investing in a summicrom

[Guest]

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If i bought a brand new 35mm f2 summicron asph 2 today how much is it likely to be worth in 5 years time.

Factoring in inflation what percentage of value would be lost if the lens was in mint but not as new condition 5 years on?

I am a uk citizen.

Best uk price is about £2,400

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[Exodies]

It depends, what’s the serial number?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Exodies said:

It depends, what’s the serial number?

No idea as i would be buying a brand new lens.

 

[Fedro]

common knowledge is that new lenses tend to "pay themselves off" over a longer period; people with more experience always told me that it takes roughly ten years before second hand prices reach what you paid for the lens new. not sure if that includes inflation, likely not, and as usual past performance is no guarantee of future returns

If you want to make an investment your best chances are probably to buy mint second hand and put it in a safe, but then again, what's the point?

[a.noctilux]

Steve,

 

Buying second hand is saving more or less 1/3 off the "new" price.

Buying new is "buying new" and support those 1/3 down when it's time to sell (or keep it for use).

Anyway, there must be someone who had bought new to feed second hand market.

That is life, just choose your camp.

[AndreasG]

1986 I bought a new Summicron 50 Version IV for 798DM, that is approx. 400Euro, I could sell today as used for around 1200Euro, but I don't.... I also bought recently a used APO 50 Summicron for a lot of money (don't tell my wife...), and I doubt that its value increases so much over the time, but I don't care, I simply enjoy these lenses!

[Stuart Richardson]

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This is a dangerous game. Lenses are not really investments. The M lenses have mostly creeped up in price over time, but that trend has been somewhat counter to other lens lines. The R's got expensive recently because they were able to be easily adapted to cinema work, unlike most other good lenses of similar vintage, as they had manual focus and aperture rings. The S lenses are spectacularly good and they have lost an enormous chunk of their value very quickly, as soon as Leica had troubles with the AF gears and since they have been so dismally slow in updating the camera or making it compete with less expensive options from Fuji and Hasselblad.

My guess, and it is just a guess, is that the 35mm APO Summicron SL will still sell well for at least a few years. You are unlikely to get what you paid for it new, but it will probably not lose much value. It is a very desirable lens and focal length. In the very long term, I think unlike the M lenses it will not hold its value as long. The M lenses have been so good at holding value because they are "dumb". You can focus them and use the aperture on any body. The SL lenses are completely electronic and even require in body corrections. As such, they are only useful on L mount bodies, and the next generation lenses are likely to use a different AF system or lens mount. Just look at the S lenses...ten years old and an 8000 dollar state of the art lens that is still sharper than nearly every other lens on the planet is worth 1/4 of its original value.

[wattsy]

14 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

My guess, and it is just a guess, is that the 35mm APO Summicron SL will still sell well for at least a few years. You are unlikely to get what you paid for it new

Stuart, I think the OP is asking about the M system 35 Summicron. More predictable I'd say than one of the electronic lenses but nothing is a sure thing and the attraction of camera gear generally may be well past peak.

To the OP I'd advise caution about hoping to retain a great deal of the new price over a 5 year period. Leica lenses are no longer in short supply and the 35 Summicron-M, being the traditional standard lens for the system, is one that is often found on the secondhand shelves as owners trade for something they think is more desirable. 

[pedaes]

You can research this yourself, but one reputable dealer has 'mint' examples for £1895, so if you work on 20% less than this plus inflation you should have a reasonable estimate.

[Ko.Fe.]

Do not open it! In five years it will give you more than used lens.

[Martin B]

I once bought this lens five years ago but returned it because of its bad performance on Sony MLC sensors (I went for its predecessor version instead, the pre-ASPH Leica 35/2.0 version IV which I really like). The price for the ASPH version didn't change much in 5 years. What changed is the price for the version I bought instead - the 35/2.0 version IV. Its price is sometimes now even more than for the ASPH version. Guess why....

[Guest]

Great answers.                  Just to confirm i am talking about an m lens for my m type 262.

Investment was not quite the correct word,i could not afford the new asph2 summicrom when i bought my camera and purchased a  used 35mm f2.4 summarit.

Its lovely but i still have this nagging hankering to buy the summicrom and i suppose i am thinking if i end up preferring the summarit i could sell the summicrom in the future.

I use  a 35mm lens for 90% of my photos.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Martin B said:

I once bought this lens five years ago but returned it because of its bad performance on Sony MLC sensors (I went for its predecessor version instead, the pre-ASPH Leica 35/2.0 version IV which I really like). The price for the ASPH version didn't change much in 5 years. What changed is the price for the version I bought instead - the 35/2.0 version IV. Its price is sometimes now even more than for the ASPH version. Guess why....

Why?

[Martin B]

5 minutes ago, steve 1959 said:

Why?

As I mentioned above, this lens (the pre-ASPH version as well as other older ones) work well on other branded MLC cameras. The ASPH f/2.0 version does not. This is not an issue at all if the lens is used on a digital Leica M camera - here they all work fine. But many use M-lens gear on other digital systems. This drove up the price for the older version. Another reason - probably less so common - is that the version IV is often wrongly cited as "bokeh king" which it certainly isn't. But it appeared many years ago in a review and is falsely copied since. 

[Stuart Richardson]

Sorry, I was confused, as this was the L mount forum... Regarding the M lens, I think it is hard to say whether it will gain value. If it does, I think it will mostly be due to inflation. I do not think this will be a lens that will become a scarcity. It is pretty common and not especially spectacular for digital etc (meaning for other digital bodies...it is fine for the M).

[lct]

Only collectible lenses can be an investment normally. A brand new M 35/2 asph would not fall in that category i fear. Neither would the M 35/2 v4 BTW the main reason of its current s/h value being its bokeh king reputation i suspect but the M 35/2 asph is no slouch either so it might follow the same trend in a couple of years... or not. I would look for a mint 6-bit coded M 35/2 asph v1 (11879) with warranty personally. I saw one sold by a serious dealer here but they are not difficult to find out on e**y or elsewhere. Better forget uncoded lenses that may suffer from focus shift if you intend to use them with digital rangefinders.

Edit: I got my new 6-bit coded 35/2 asph v1 (11879) for 2,050 EUR in 2011 and i could sell it for 1,500 EUR at least now.

Edited November 19, 2019 by lct

[spydrxx]

Don't think of it as an investment if you plan to use it. Investments are meant to appreciate in value, which means among other things preserving their pristine nature from inception...which usually has a cost as well. Also, as I'm sure you're aware, the value of investments at any given time are also highly dependent on supply and demand, uniqueness of the item, and what the potential buyer is focusing on as alternative investments, which he/she expects to further appreciate in excess of the general rate of inflation over an expected time period. If you want it....buy it and use it, just not as an investment.

[Martin B]

20 minutes ago, lct said:

Only collectible lenses can be an investment normally. A brand new M 35/2 asph would not fall in that category i fear. Neither would the M 35/2 v4 BTW the main reason of its current s/h value being its bokeh king reputation i suspect but the M 35/2 asph is no slouch either so it might follow the same trend in a couple of years... or not. I would look for a mint 6-bit coded M 35/2 asph v1 (11879) with warranty personally. I saw one sold by a serious dealer here but they are not difficult to find out on e**y or elsewhere. Better forget uncoded lenses that may suffer from focus shift if you intend to use them with digital rangefinders.

Bought the 35/2 vers. IV in 2015 for $1700 used in mint condition. Now the used lens value is commonly around $2300-2500. The > 40% price increase for this lens cannot just been explained by the "bokeh" king term. In fact this lens is now valued as much as the newer 35/2 ASPH version. Reason for this is as I stated above that the older 35/2 version is more flexible to be used on all kind of other MLC systems. 

Leica ASPH-based lenses work fine on Leica M AND other MLC systems with faster f-stops (with wider end lens). The Leica 35/1.4 ASPH is a good example - but now we are in a very different price range. I tested this lens once in a Leica store on my A7R without seeing any fault. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Martin B

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Hallo,

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[james.liam]

26 minutes ago, Martin B said:

Bought the 35/2 vers. IV in 2015 for $1700 used in mint condition. Now the used lens value is commonly around $2300-2500. The > 40% price increase for this lens cannot just been explained by the "bokeh" king term. In fact this lens is now valued as much as the newer 35/2 ASPH version. Reason for this is as I stated above that the older 35/2 version is more flexible to be used on all kind of other MLC systems. 

Leica ASPH-based lenses work fine on Leica M AND other MLC systems with faster f-stops (with wider end lens). The Leica 35/1.4 ASPH is a good example - but now we are in a very different price range. I tested this lens once in a Leica store on my A7R without seeing any fault. 

Are you certain? From what I've seen, the corners get quite muddled with FL <50, with a few notable exceptions, and IIRC, these outliers were mostly VM lenses. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by james.liam

[Martin B]

44 minutes ago, james.liam said:

Are you certain? From what I've seen, the corners get quite muddled with FL <50, with a few notable exceptions, and IIRC, these outliers were mostly VM lenses. 

I have posted photos taken with the A7R and this lens in this thread in one of the forums here:

This lens delivers outstanding image quality on this Sony sensor without any further PP needed.