Wish the Q2 came with a 35mm lens

[eyeheartny]

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On 11/11/2020 at 5:08 AM, PhotoCruiser said:

Once again and still the same: There will be never be a Q type camera with a different lens.
There is also no need to do that as there are other cameras doing the same and maybe even better, just to name the SL2

If i should be terribly sad and everyday disapointed about the focal lenght of my camera i simply would sell it and buy another who fit my wishes/needs.
Basically thats what i did with my D800 rig, as it is too bulky and heavy to haul around the world and i was planning (and did) an 6 month road trip in southern Europe,
i pulled the trigger and got the Q and 3 few months later traded her it in for the finally available Q2 and i never looked back.

However, with the new Zeiss there is a new kid on the block, she has also a excellent lens and same high price for a compact size camera.

If i would have 30K to spend for a interchangable lens camera then the SL2 and 3 lenses would what i would buy.
But as this rig would have the same sad, lonely life in my dry cabinet crying for a bit of love (my D800 rig does) as i would use mostly the Q2 as she fit 90% of my needs.

Chris

 

The SL2 is gigantic compared to the Q2. This is just not a realistic suggestion. 

[eyeheartny]

On 11/13/2020 at 11:10 PM, Miltz said:

Get the Nikon Z7 with the 35mm 1.8. Problem Solved. And it's actually light weight and the Z lens is excellent. It actually has less distortion than the 28mm 1.7 on the Leica. 

 

Except the size of the package is absolutely not comparable whatsoever. The whole appeal of the Q2 is the incredibly small body and lens combo with a large sensor and a high quality lens. The Z7 is 25% taller and the Nikon 35mm lens is over 2x as long as the Leica 28mm on the Q2. My current thinking is that the best "compromise" package is a Sony full frame body, either the A7C or A7RIV with a small-ish 35mm lens from either Sony or Samyang. Combined with Sony's superior eye AF and IBIS, it's an appealing combo. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by eyeheartny

[Dr. G]

46 minutes ago, eyeheartny said:

The SL2 is gigantic compared to the Q2. This is just not a realistic suggestion. 

It really depends.  I had the Q2 and, yes, I loved the size - but I went with the SL2 and Summicron-SL lenses (35, 50, 90).  Honestly, I don't miss the Q2.  I am not, however, comfortable with 28mm for the type of photos I tend to take and was usually cropping my Q2 images.  For me, the added weight and size of the SL with either the 35 or 50 (my two most used focal lengths) mounted wasn't something I was concerned about.   Also, 28mm cropped to 35 or 50 still has the perspective distortion of a 28mm lens.  There's no wrong answer - just personal preference and what someone is willing to carry.

[eyeheartny]

1 hour ago, Steven said:

I’ve been using a lot lately an A7S3 with a summilux 35 

what a beast of the combo in such a small package. The speed at which the Sony operates under any single condition, even in a pitch black room, is astonishing. I have not missed a single shot with it. Sincerely, my hit rate with an M is around 70% but with the way I have set up the Sony for manual focus, and with the help of that incredible 9M dot evf, I get 95% of my shots sharp. Not even mentioning the flip screen for any kind of angle, and the fact that if necessary, I can also press record and start grabbing Hollywood quality video through my M lenses. 
it’s been so surprisingly incredible that I’ve considered buying the 28 lux. Then I got myself a beast of a Q2. 
i like manual shooting and I can assure you that with the Sony’s advanced peaking settings, I can get any shot faster than I ever could with the Q2’s mediocre AF. 
 

the q2 is a beast though. I love this package too. 

How are you finding the corner/edge performance? Not that it matters a ton but I'm curious. 

[Gijs-Jan]

Am 14.11.2020 um 08:10 schrieb Miltz:

Get the Nikon Z7 with the 35mm 1.8. Problem Solved. And it's actually light weight and the Z lens is excellent. It actually has less distortion than the 28mm 1.7 on the Leica. 

In the 60's I learned the joy of photography with my father’s M2.

At a certain point I knew better and went my own way and tried many different brands. Then someone showed me an M9 and that was a surprise, everything was exactly where it should be. So I bought one with some extra lenses. But 95% of the time used the summilux 35mm.  I loved it. But the whole set was too heavy for a very bad shoulder.

So I got the Q2. That turned out to be the best of both worlds for me, the feeling of the M2 but with all kind of nice modern extras.

Leica still is the best engineered, most beautiful camera with ultimate handling and by far the best optics you can get.  

So thank you for your advice, but no thank you for Nikon

[nwphil]

according to Leica, they tailored the sensor and tweaked the lens internals a bit for the best performance at the given focal length....that renders the ultimate Qx a-la-carte: pick a body - Q2 or Q2M and a lens: 24-28-35-50  all f/2. Who cares about engraving and faux-finishes...

[sfphoto]

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3 hours ago, Dr. G said:

Also, 28mm cropped to 35 or 50 still has the perspective distortion of a 28mm lens

Sorry, but this is wrong. Cropping to 35 and 50 will give you the exact same perspective as a 35 or 50 lens!

https://www.cremerseele.de/perspektivische-verzerrungen-haben-nichts-mit-der-brennweite-zu-tun/

[nwphil]

On 3/6/2020 at 12:30 PM, sfphoto said:

Well, here is the table (again):
28 mm, f/1.7, 47 MP
35 mm, f/2.1, 30 MP
50 mm, f/3.0, 15 MP
75 mm, f/4.6, 7 MP
Up to you when you feel you need a different lens (and camera). But I would say, if you are ok with 15MP at the longest focal length, you have a pretty decent 28-50mm f/1.7-3.0.

hmmm.... Leica is saying that despite any crop factor, a raw file version is created without any crop factor -  it's only the jpeg file that will show the crop factor (unless you shoot jpeg only, and I am not sure if Q2M supports that). So if the dgn file it's a shot at f/1.7 but a crop factor to jpeg was used, unless there is some digital conversion being done to change the distortion perspective to equivalent cropping, I can't see the f values changing nor the dof

[nwphil]

20 minutes ago, Steven said:

Ok this is so absurd that I’m not going to get into it. Sorry. 
And yes, the F stop equivalent changes when you crop, just like aps c vs full frame. 

it's the same sensor, so there is no aps C vs FF - that I can agree that changes. Go see the Leica files in dgn format they are providing. The DGN file WILL BE f1.7 (if f1.7 was used) despite any crop factor - the dgn file shows the crop factor in post depending of software used.

https://en.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-Q/Leica-Q2-Monochrom/Technical-Insights

Edited November 19, 2020 by nwphil

[sfphoto]

32 minutes ago, Steven said:

Absolutely not. That’s nonsense.  Dr G is right. A bigger problem is that cropping will not change the dof either and that will be very noticeable. 
Cropping a 28 into a 50 will still give you the compression of the 28, therefore the dof of a 28 and not a 50. 

We were talking about perspective. The perspective does not change if you crop. The wide angle effect you are probably referring to is not due to the short focal length it is because you are so close to the subject. Try it yourself. 

DOF is a different topic. The DOF of the 28/1.7 (cropped to 35) is the same as a 35/2.1. So the Leica Q2 gives you the exact same perspective and DOF as a FF camera with 30MPx and a 35mm/2.1 lens. Of course, the aperture on the lens does not change. It is still 1.7.
Trust me. There are a lot of videos and examples on the web or try it yourself. This one is in German but you will get the idea:
https://www.cremerseele.de/perspektivische-verzerrungen-haben-nichts-mit-der-brennweite-zu-tun/

[Daedalus2000]

53 minutes ago, Steven said:

Absolutely not. That’s nonsense.  Dr G is right. A bigger problem is that cropping will not change the dof either and that will be very noticeable. 
Cropping a 28 into a 50 will still give you the compression of the 28, therefore the dof of a 28 and not a 50. 

From wikipedia 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_distortion_(photography)

Note that linear perspective changes are caused by distance, not by the lens per se – two shots of the same scene from the same distance will exhibit identical perspective geometry, regardless of lens used. 

 

[nwphil]

9 minutes ago, sfphoto said:

We were talking about perspective. The perspective does not change if you crop. The wide angle effect you are probably referring to is not due to the short focal length it is because you are so close to the subject. Try it yourself. 

DOF is a different topic. The DOF of the 28/1.7 (cropped to 35) is the same as a 35/2.1. So the Leica Q2 gives you the exact same perspective and DOF as a FF camera with 30MPx and a 35mm/2.1 lens. Of course, the aperture on the lens does not change. It is still 1.7.
Trust me. There are a lot of videos and examples on the web or try it yourself. This one is in German but you will get the idea:
https://www.cremerseele.de/perspektivische-verzerrungen-haben-nichts-mit-der-brennweite-zu-tun/

the website is indeed very good illustrating the distortion issue and explaining it...and at same time does provides a sort of work-around for portraits - keeping subject at 2 meters seems to be the answer/solution.

But he is talking about different lenses - actual physical different focal lengths, not a digital gimmick which seems that is being done in camera

[PhotoCruiser]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb eyeheartny:

The SL2 is gigantic compared to the Q2. This is just not a realistic suggestion. 

A Q with a longer and/or heavier lens will be "gigantic" and particularly beeing tippy and also looking odd like some m4/3 cameras beinga basically a lens with a camera attached.
The Q series was designed and engineered to be perfect as she is built and Leica would be not very smart to make the higher level cameras concurrence offering the Qxx with other lenses.

As already suggested, there are other cameras with 35mm lens in a similar size who have e excellent quality as well, but they are not a Leica.

Chris

[evikne]

Perspective is indeed very simple. The only thing that affects it is your position in relation to the subject.

Other factors, such as focal length, cropping and sensor size just includes more or less of the surroundings.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, evikne said:

Perspective is indeed very simple. The only thing that affects it is your position in relation to the subject.

Other factors, such as focal length, cropping and sensor size just includes more or less of the surroundings.

Too true. When will people on this forum get this basic point. This is so imperative to understanding photography and composition. Much more than discussing character between 24MP and 40MP sensors or whether to upgrade once again after only shooting a camera for 12 months. Shoot, study and learn more - chase gear less. I’m trying (and struggling) to adhere to this mantra. 😊

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Steven said:

This is true, but what the person who started this discussion originally stated is NOT. 
he said that if you crop in the 28mm image, you have the equivalent of a 35image. NO!!! Because cropping doesn’t make you feet move. To get the equivalent of a 35, he would have had to step back a few steps in order to achieve the same perspective. That being said, that still wouldn’t fix the compression difference, as well as the fact that cropping increases the depth of field. I think that most people when they talk about perspective actually think about bokeh. They think that cropping into a 28mm image is going to give you a 35mm image, but that’s not true. Never. Not even if you step back enough with your feet. Sorry ! 

I won’t lecture any more. But you are clearly mixing several concepts.

Perspective is decided by the position of the photographer/camera relative to the subject (and fore-/background). Nothing to do with focal length - FACT!

DOF and hence “what people call bokeh” is decided by the size of the “eye” of the lens. This is determined by (focal length) / aperture. I.e. 35mm @ f/1.4 corresponds to 50mm @ f/2 in relation to bokeh. Hence a 300mm @ f/8 will yield a much smaller DOF than 28mm @ f/1.4 - do the math.

All this is true on both the M10, M10R and even the M2 😉 Go figure. 

[Guest]

I just do not understand why camera companies keep producing lenses of various focal lengths?

Why bother when all we have to do is crop to get any focal length required?

[sfphoto]

24 minutes ago, steve 1959 said:

I just do not understand why camera companies keep producing lenses of various focal lengths?

Why bother when all we have to do is crop to get any focal length required?

Maybe this helps: Let me give you the answers to a few possible questions you may have about. Let's just choose the 50mm crop on the Leica Q2:

1. Can I crop to 50mm and still get great images? Yes.
2. What if I rather wanted a 54mm crop? No problem, the raw is still the full 28mm and you can crop in post. Only the JPG is cropped.
3. Will the perspective be the same as if I had used a 50mm lens? Absolutely the same.
4. What about my 47MPx? At 50mm you are only getting the central 15MPx, still not bad.
5. Will my exposure time be the same? Yes, you are still taking images at f/1.7 (or whatever you set your lens to). And your EXIF will still say f/1.7 even if you crop to 50mm.
6. What about the beautiful bokeh that those 50mm lenses have? On the Q2 you get the DOF of a 50mm lens at f/3.0 (i.e. similar to the typical 24-70mm/2.8 lens at 50mm).
7. What about compression? Again, perspective is the same. It only depends on where you stand.
8. Why do people buy all these lenses? A. Because their camera does not have 47MPx and they cannot crop so well. B. They want the shallow DOF of a 50mm/1.4. C. Because it does not make sense to crop to 90mm, 135mm, 300mm,… If you want to use focal lengths 21mm and 300mm, you need to change lenses.
9. Why do so many people want a 35mm Q2? I do not know, maybe because they think they will never be in front of a tall building or inside a small room where they could need a 28mm. 

I will stop here. Tired of this discussion. Sad to see that some experienced photographers still do not get it...

[Guest]

7 hours ago, sfphoto said:

Maybe this helps: Let me give you the answers to a few possible questions you may have about. Let's just choose the 50mm crop on the Leica Q2:

1. Can I crop to 50mm and still get great images? Yes.
2. What if I rather wanted a 54mm crop? No problem, the raw is still the full 28mm and you can crop in post. Only the JPG is cropped.
3. Will the perspective be the same as if I had used a 50mm lens? Absolutely the same.
4. What about my 47MPx? At 50mm you are only getting the central 15MPx, still not bad.
5. Will my exposure time be the same? Yes, you are still taking images at f/1.7 (or whatever you set your lens to). And your EXIF will still say f/1.7 even if you crop to 50mm.
6. What about the beautiful bokeh that those 50mm lenses have? On the Q2 you get the DOF of a 50mm lens at f/3.0 (i.e. similar to the typical 24-70mm/2.8 lens at 50mm).
7. What about compression? Again, perspective is the same. It only depends on where you stand.
8. Why do people buy all these lenses? A. Because their camera does not have 47MPx and they cannot crop so well. B. They want the shallow DOF of a 50mm/1.4. C. Because it does not make sense to crop to 90mm, 135mm, 300mm,… If you want to use focal lengths 21mm and 300mm, you need to change lenses.
9. Why do so many people want a 35mm Q2? I do not know, maybe because they think they will never be in front of a tall building or inside a small room where they could need a 28mm. 

I will stop here. Tired of this discussion. Sad to see that some experienced photographers still do not get it...

Thanks good answers of course but i always feel Q users over play the crop issue to justify the camera.

If i had a Q i would use it as a 28mm camera and never worry or bother with cropping .

 

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Hallo,

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[PhotoCruiser]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb steve 1959:

If i had a Q i would use it as a 28mm camera and never worry or bother with cropping .

I believe that most of us Q/Q2 users use the camera for what she was designed for, a wide-angle camera.
But the excellent optical quality and the high pixels gives us the possibility to realize also substantial crops, and that is a great feature.

I have to admit that i crop almost all photos as it's my workflow to download the photos to my computer and view them on my 27 or 32 inch monitor.
It was the workflow, in earlier years blowing them up and cropping them in the darkroom and now it's cleaner and less stinky to do that on the computer.
I think except stillife in a studio some cropping or leveling is often necessary and i see nothing bad in doing that, it was always a part of photography.

Chris