eyeheartny Posted November 19, 2020 Share #101 Posted November 19, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) On 11/11/2020 at 5:08 AM, PhotoCruiser said: Once again and still the same: There will be never be a Q type camera with a different lens. There is also no need to do that as there are other cameras doing the same and maybe even better, just to name the SL2 If i should be terribly sad and everyday disapointed about the focal lenght of my camera i simply would sell it and buy another who fit my wishes/needs. Basically thats what i did with my D800 rig, as it is too bulky and heavy to haul around the world and i was planning (and did) an 6 month road trip in southern Europe, i pulled the trigger and got the Q and 3 few months later traded her it in for the finally available Q2 and i never looked back. However, with the new Zeiss there is a new kid on the block, she has also a excellent lens and same high price for a compact size camera. If i would have 30K to spend for a interchangable lens camera then the SL2 and 3 lenses would what i would buy. But as this rig would have the same sad, lonely life in my dry cabinet crying for a bit of love (my D800 rig does) as i would use mostly the Q2 as she fit 90% of my needs. Chris The SL2 is gigantic compared to the Q2. This is just not a realistic suggestion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 19, 2020 Posted November 19, 2020 Hi eyeheartny, Take a look here Wish the Q2 came with a 35mm lens. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
eyeheartny Posted November 19, 2020 Share #102 Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) On 11/13/2020 at 11:10 PM, Miltz said: Get the Nikon Z7 with the 35mm 1.8. Problem Solved. And it's actually light weight and the Z lens is excellent. It actually has less distortion than the 28mm 1.7 on the Leica. Except the size of the package is absolutely not comparable whatsoever. The whole appeal of the Q2 is the incredibly small body and lens combo with a large sensor and a high quality lens. The Z7 is 25% taller and the Nikon 35mm lens is over 2x as long as the Leica 28mm on the Q2. My current thinking is that the best "compromise" package is a Sony full frame body, either the A7C or A7RIV with a small-ish 35mm lens from either Sony or Samyang. Combined with Sony's superior eye AF and IBIS, it's an appealing combo. Edited November 19, 2020 by eyeheartny 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted November 19, 2020 Share #103 Posted November 19, 2020 1 minute ago, eyeheartny said: Except the size of the package is absolutely not comparable whatsoever. The whole appeal of the Q2 is the incredibly small body and lens combo with a large sensor and a high quality lens. The Z7 is 25% taller and the 35mm lens is over 2x as long as the Leica 28mm on the Q2. My current thinking is that the best "compromise" package is a Sony full frame body, either the A7C or A7RIV with a small-ish 35mm lens from either Sony or Samyang. Combined with Sony's superior eye AF, it's an appealing combo. I’ve been using a lot lately an A7S3 with a summilux 35 what a beast of the combo in such a small package. The speed at which the Sony operates under any single condition, even in a pitch black room, is astonishing. I have not missed a single shot with it. Sincerely, my hit rate with an M is around 70% but with the way I have set up the Sony for manual focus, and with the help of that incredible 9M dot evf, I get 95% of my shots sharp. Not even mentioning the flip screen for any kind of angle, and the fact that if necessary, I can also press record and start grabbing Hollywood quality video through my M lenses. it’s been so surprisingly incredible that I’ve considered buying the 28 lux. Then I got myself a beast of a Q2. i like manual shooting and I can assure you that with the Sony’s advanced peaking settings, I can get any shot faster than I ever could with the Q2’s mediocre AF. the q2 is a beast though. I love this package too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. G Posted November 19, 2020 Share #104 Posted November 19, 2020 46 minutes ago, eyeheartny said: The SL2 is gigantic compared to the Q2. This is just not a realistic suggestion. It really depends. I had the Q2 and, yes, I loved the size - but I went with the SL2 and Summicron-SL lenses (35, 50, 90). Honestly, I don't miss the Q2. I am not, however, comfortable with 28mm for the type of photos I tend to take and was usually cropping my Q2 images. For me, the added weight and size of the SL with either the 35 or 50 (my two most used focal lengths) mounted wasn't something I was concerned about. Also, 28mm cropped to 35 or 50 still has the perspective distortion of a 28mm lens. There's no wrong answer - just personal preference and what someone is willing to carry. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeheartny Posted November 19, 2020 Share #105 Posted November 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Steven said: I’ve been using a lot lately an A7S3 with a summilux 35 what a beast of the combo in such a small package. The speed at which the Sony operates under any single condition, even in a pitch black room, is astonishing. I have not missed a single shot with it. Sincerely, my hit rate with an M is around 70% but with the way I have set up the Sony for manual focus, and with the help of that incredible 9M dot evf, I get 95% of my shots sharp. Not even mentioning the flip screen for any kind of angle, and the fact that if necessary, I can also press record and start grabbing Hollywood quality video through my M lenses. it’s been so surprisingly incredible that I’ve considered buying the 28 lux. Then I got myself a beast of a Q2. i like manual shooting and I can assure you that with the Sony’s advanced peaking settings, I can get any shot faster than I ever could with the Q2’s mediocre AF. the q2 is a beast though. I love this package too. How are you finding the corner/edge performance? Not that it matters a ton but I'm curious. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gijs-Jan Posted November 19, 2020 Share #106 Posted November 19, 2020 Am 14.11.2020 um 08:10 schrieb Miltz: Get the Nikon Z7 with the 35mm 1.8. Problem Solved. And it's actually light weight and the Z lens is excellent. It actually has less distortion than the 28mm 1.7 on the Leica. In the 60's I learned the joy of photography with my father’s M2. At a certain point I knew better and went my own way and tried many different brands. Then someone showed me an M9 and that was a surprise, everything was exactly where it should be. So I bought one with some extra lenses. But 95% of the time used the summilux 35mm. I loved it. But the whole set was too heavy for a very bad shoulder. So I got the Q2. That turned out to be the best of both worlds for me, the feeling of the M2 but with all kind of nice modern extras. Leica still is the best engineered, most beautiful camera with ultimate handling and by far the best optics you can get. So thank you for your advice, but no thank you for Nikon Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted November 19, 2020 Share #107 Posted November 19, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, eyeheartny said: How are you finding the corner/edge performance? Not that it matters a ton but I'm curious. The lens I'm using it with is not the sharpest in the corners to begin with, but I did on another thread a real world side by side test of the 12MP sony sensor against the 40 M10R and 24MP M10P. I showed about 100 photos in blind test and absolutely no one could could tell which was which. Actually, over 75% of the time, people chose the sony as their prefered result, and that's because the A7S3 is a beast that outperformed the M in 95% of the shots. I think that sony did a huge progress with that sensor and the colours of the RAW images are easily matchable to Leica with just a few slides. I also think that it will perform as well as the SL2 with a 35 or 50. With wider angle, I've heard in can be an issue but ive not tested it. To be honest at this point I am craving the idea of putting a 28 lux on that body, and this could turn it into a Q2 on steroids, or a mini SL2... on steroids as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted November 19, 2020 Share #108 Posted November 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, Gijs-Jan said: In the 60's I learned the joy of photography with my father’s M2. At a certain point I knew better and went my own way and tried many different brands. Then someone showed me an M9 and that was a surprise, everything was exactly where it should be. So I bought one with some extra lenses. But 95% of the time used the summilux 35mm. I loved it. But the whole set was too heavy for a very bad shoulder. So I got the Q2. That turned out to be the best of both worlds for me, the feeling of the M2 but with all kind of nice modern extras. Leica still is the best engineered, most beautiful camera with ultimate handling and by far the best optics you can get. So thank you for your advice, but no thank you for Nikon The Q2 is so good. But back to original post of the thread, if it came with a 35 lux, id pay twice the price it cost now for it. Unfortunately, it will never come with anything else than the 28 lux. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwphil Posted November 19, 2020 Share #109 Posted November 19, 2020 according to Leica, they tailored the sensor and tweaked the lens internals a bit for the best performance at the given focal length....that renders the ultimate Qx a-la-carte: pick a body - Q2 or Q2M and a lens: 24-28-35-50 all f/2. Who cares about engraving and faux-finishes... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfphoto Posted November 19, 2020 Share #110 Posted November 19, 2020 3 hours ago, Dr. G said: Also, 28mm cropped to 35 or 50 still has the perspective distortion of a 28mm lens Sorry, but this is wrong. Cropping to 35 and 50 will give you the exact same perspective as a 35 or 50 lens! https://www.cremerseele.de/perspektivische-verzerrungen-haben-nichts-mit-der-brennweite-zu-tun/ 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted November 19, 2020 Share #111 Posted November 19, 2020 Just now, sfphoto said: Sorry, but this is wrong. Cropping to 35 and 50 will give you the exact same perspective as a 35 or 50 lens! https://www.cremerseele.de/perspektivische-verzerrungen-haben-nichts-mit-der-brennweite-zu-tun/ Absolutely not. That’s nonsense. Dr G is right. A bigger problem is that cropping will not change the dof either and that will be very noticeable. Cropping a 28 into a 50 will still give you the compression of the 28, therefore the dof of a 28 and not a 50. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwphil Posted November 19, 2020 Share #112 Posted November 19, 2020 On 3/6/2020 at 12:30 PM, sfphoto said: Well, here is the table (again): 28 mm, f/1.7, 47 MP 35 mm, f/2.1, 30 MP 50 mm, f/3.0, 15 MP 75 mm, f/4.6, 7 MP Up to you when you feel you need a different lens (and camera). But I would say, if you are ok with 15MP at the longest focal length, you have a pretty decent 28-50mm f/1.7-3.0. hmmm.... Leica is saying that despite any crop factor, a raw file version is created without any crop factor - it's only the jpeg file that will show the crop factor (unless you shoot jpeg only, and I am not sure if Q2M supports that). So if the dgn file it's a shot at f/1.7 but a crop factor to jpeg was used, unless there is some digital conversion being done to change the distortion perspective to equivalent cropping, I can't see the f values changing nor the dof Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted November 19, 2020 Share #113 Posted November 19, 2020 1 minute ago, nwphil said: hmmm.... Leica is saying that despite any crop factor, a raw file version is created without any crop factor - it's only the jpeg file that will show the crop factor (unless you shoot jpeg only, and I am not sure if Q2M supports that). So if the dgn file it's a shot at f/1.7 but a crop factor to jpeg was used, unless there is some digital conversion being done to change the distortion perspective to equivalent cropping, I can't see the f values changing nor the dof Ok this is so absurd that I’m not going to get into it. Sorry. And yes, the F stop equivalent changes when you crop, just like aps c vs full frame. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwphil Posted November 19, 2020 Share #114 Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Steven said: Ok this is so absurd that I’m not going to get into it. Sorry. And yes, the F stop equivalent changes when you crop, just like aps c vs full frame. it's the same sensor, so there is no aps C vs FF - that I can agree that changes. Go see the Leica files in dgn format they are providing. The DGN file WILL BE f1.7 (if f1.7 was used) despite any crop factor - the dgn file shows the crop factor in post depending of software used. https://en.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-Q/Leica-Q2-Monochrom/Technical-Insights Edited November 19, 2020 by nwphil Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfphoto Posted November 20, 2020 Share #115 Posted November 20, 2020 32 minutes ago, Steven said: Absolutely not. That’s nonsense. Dr G is right. A bigger problem is that cropping will not change the dof either and that will be very noticeable. Cropping a 28 into a 50 will still give you the compression of the 28, therefore the dof of a 28 and not a 50. We were talking about perspective. The perspective does not change if you crop. The wide angle effect you are probably referring to is not due to the short focal length it is because you are so close to the subject. Try it yourself. DOF is a different topic. The DOF of the 28/1.7 (cropped to 35) is the same as a 35/2.1. So the Leica Q2 gives you the exact same perspective and DOF as a FF camera with 30MPx and a 35mm/2.1 lens. Of course, the aperture on the lens does not change. It is still 1.7. Trust me. There are a lot of videos and examples on the web or try it yourself. This one is in German but you will get the idea:https://www.cremerseele.de/perspektivische-verzerrungen-haben-nichts-mit-der-brennweite-zu-tun/ 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus2000 Posted November 20, 2020 Share #116 Posted November 20, 2020 53 minutes ago, Steven said: Absolutely not. That’s nonsense. Dr G is right. A bigger problem is that cropping will not change the dof either and that will be very noticeable. Cropping a 28 into a 50 will still give you the compression of the 28, therefore the dof of a 28 and not a 50. From wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_distortion_(photography) Note that linear perspective changes are caused by distance, not by the lens per se – two shots of the same scene from the same distance will exhibit identical perspective geometry, regardless of lens used. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwphil Posted November 20, 2020 Share #117 Posted November 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, sfphoto said: We were talking about perspective. The perspective does not change if you crop. The wide angle effect you are probably referring to is not due to the short focal length it is because you are so close to the subject. Try it yourself. DOF is a different topic. The DOF of the 28/1.7 (cropped to 35) is the same as a 35/2.1. So the Leica Q2 gives you the exact same perspective and DOF as a FF camera with 30MPx and a 35mm/2.1 lens. Of course, the aperture on the lens does not change. It is still 1.7. Trust me. There are a lot of videos and examples on the web or try it yourself. This one is in German but you will get the idea:https://www.cremerseele.de/perspektivische-verzerrungen-haben-nichts-mit-der-brennweite-zu-tun/ the website is indeed very good illustrating the distortion issue and explaining it...and at same time does provides a sort of work-around for portraits - keeping subject at 2 meters seems to be the answer/solution. But he is talking about different lenses - actual physical different focal lengths, not a digital gimmick which seems that is being done in camera Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhotoCruiser Posted November 20, 2020 Share #118 Posted November 20, 2020 vor 14 Stunden schrieb eyeheartny: The SL2 is gigantic compared to the Q2. This is just not a realistic suggestion. A Q with a longer and/or heavier lens will be "gigantic" and particularly beeing tippy and also looking odd like some m4/3 cameras beinga basically a lens with a camera attached. The Q series was designed and engineered to be perfect as she is built and Leica would be not very smart to make the higher level cameras concurrence offering the Qxx with other lenses. As already suggested, there are other cameras with 35mm lens in a similar size who have e excellent quality as well, but they are not a Leica. Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted November 20, 2020 Share #119 Posted November 20, 2020 Perspective is indeed very simple. The only thing that affects it is your position in relation to the subject. Other factors, such as focal length, cropping and sensor size just includes more or less of the surroundings. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 20, 2020 Share #120 Posted November 20, 2020 9 hours ago, evikne said: Perspective is indeed very simple. The only thing that affects it is your position in relation to the subject. Other factors, such as focal length, cropping and sensor size just includes more or less of the surroundings. Too true. When will people on this forum get this basic point. This is so imperative to understanding photography and composition. Much more than discussing character between 24MP and 40MP sensors or whether to upgrade once again after only shooting a camera for 12 months. Shoot, study and learn more - chase gear less. I’m trying (and struggling) to adhere to this mantra. 😊 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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