Would you buy an M10 or an SL? Why?

[W124]

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I don't have the SL but using a A7sII beside the M10 because of the AF!

I'm not able to get my playing or running kids in focus with the rangefinder. 

For all other I take the M10.

[tom0511]

I would say the advantage is easier reliable focusing of lenses with shallow DOF or lenses with focus shift or lenses longer 50mm, and more precise framing, specially with wide angle lenses. Also better exposure metering system.

For me rangefinder works best for 35 and 50 mm.

The SL has the advantage that you can also add AF-lenseses over the years, but it feels not as "light and simple and puristic" like a rangefinder.

 

[giampo]

On 10/24/2019 at 5:53 PM, willeica said:

Leica would need to get the SL and its lenses down to at least two thirds of their current size

But then you will have just another M, and that already exist…
SL is very different camera than the M, and for that as a really different design and size.

Thanks god Leica still know what a good design is and, dislike other companies, doesn't make ridicusly small bodys with huge lenses attache to it.
The size of the SL it is just perfect, expecially for the SL lenses 

[otto.f]

and former R above and with 80lux

Edited October 25, 2019 by otto.f

[Raid Amin]

On 10/24/2019 at 3:30 PM, Jeff S said:

Sounds more like a goal issue than a budget issue.  What specifically are you trying to accomplish besides owning more gear?  Answer that, then decide what you can afford.

Jeff

It is a budget issue since I have a set (limited) budget first. I can have goals, as you put it, but it has to be manageable financially.

[Raid Amin]

15 hours ago, DirkS said:

For me M-lenses and CL are the best of both worlds. A small not heavy combination for great pics and the possibility to use all tele-lenses, too.

I would keep the M9 and add a CL. 

I haven't given the CL any thoughts yet. Thanks for the tip.

[Jeff S]

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31 minutes ago, Raid Amin said:

It is a budget issue since I have a set (limited) budget first. I can have goals, as you put it, but it has to be manageable financially.

No need to spend a penny without a goal.  Unless your goal is just to spend your money.  Otherwise money is a means to an end.  What’s your objective?

[Mute-on]

24 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

No need to spend a penny without a goal.  Unless your goal is just to spend your money.  Otherwise money is a means to an end.  What’s your objective?

I think Jeff raises a very good point regarding objectives. 

What do you not have in your M8 and M9 that would be provided by M10 or SL?

What you want to retain that the M8 and M9 do provide?

I suspect in answering these questions, the choice will present itself as the result of a decision tree analysis. 

In relation to the 50 APO, unless you don’t have a 50/2 lens, I think it is a waste of $$$. 

Good luck!

Edited October 25, 2019 by Mute-on

[willeica]

16 hours ago, giampo said:

The size of the SL it is just perfect, expecially for the SL lenses 

For you, but not for me. I have M3x2, M2, M4, M4-2, M4P, M5, M6, M7, M8, M9, M240 and M10. I have many more LTM models (my favourites) than M models, ranging from a 1926 I Model A to a IIIg. For me, the SL is not a perfect size and its lenses are ridiculously large. My main point, though, was that the M models and the SL represent two totally different camera design philosophies and cannot really be compared, nor are they substitutes. I think that you agree with this.

William

[helged]

28 minutes ago, willeica said:

... My main point, though, was that the M models and the SL represent two totally different camera design philosophies and cannot really be compared, nor are they substitutes.

+1.

[Stuart Richardson]

Hi Raid, 

I think this boils down to goals and preference, as Jeff and others have mentioned. What is it you like about using the M8 and M9? Is it the user experience, or more the quality of the lenses? If you only intend to use the M lenses, and you love the rangefinder experience, I would recommend the M10. It is the current high mark of digital rangefinders, and it improves a lot of the issues with the earlier cameras (larger size, poor battery life, poor high ISO, difficult to focus long/fast lenses). It also gives you live view and an option to use an EVF, so if you want to supplement with a super wide or long telephoto lens, it is now a relatively simple affair.  I would say that it is a fully mature product line at this point. While I still tend to prefer the color of the M9, the M10 is certainly a better overall camera. 

If your interest in the SL is because you are having trouble focusing the M lenses, then it may be a better choice if you have plenty of time. You can certainly focus more accurately with the SL if you take your time with it, but personally I find that the magnified live view takes me out of a moment if I am trying to photograph a dynamic scene. But for still lives and landscapes it is easier to focus more accurately. One big advantage to the SL is that it can take AF lenses...not just from Leica. Another is that it can do video, if that is something you are at all interested in. 

Personally, I think that if you are happy with rangefinders and do not feel the need to switch, the M10 is the clear choice. But if you are finding that you love the M lenses and look, but find you have a hard time focusing them or resent using the RF, then the SL is probably a better route. 

[otto.f]

15 hours ago, Mute-on said:

In relation to the 50 APO, unless you don’t have a 50/2 lens, I think it is a waste of $$$. 

Good luck!

I doubt that. OP speaks about budget, so money is involved. In any case, buying a digital camera will always set you back more than buying a lens will do. Especially lenses like APO or Noctilux 50 which are people prepared to have for (a while for) less than the new price. 

[Guest JMF]

Raid, once you get an SL , sooner or later you'll start getting some R lenses... 🙂

[Raid Amin]

4 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Hi Raid, 

I think this boils down to goals and preference, as Jeff and others have mentioned. What is it you like about using the M8 and M9? Is it the user experience, or more the quality of the lenses? If you only intend to use the M lenses, and you love the rangefinder experience, I would recommend the M10. It is the current high mark of digital rangefinders, and it improves a lot of the issues with the earlier cameras (larger size, poor battery life, poor high ISO, difficult to focus long/fast lenses). It also gives you live view and an option to use an EVF, so if you want to supplement with a super wide or long telephoto lens, it is now a relatively simple affair.  I would say that it is a fully mature product line at this point. While I still tend to prefer the color of the M9, the M10 is certainly a better overall camera. 

If your interest in the SL is because you are having trouble focusing the M lenses, then it may be a better choice if you have plenty of time. You can certainly focus more accurately with the SL if you take your time with it, but personally I find that the magnified live view takes me out of a moment if I am trying to photograph a dynamic scene. But for still lives and landscapes it is easier to focus more accurately. One big advantage to the SL is that it can take AF lenses...not just from Leica. Another is that it can do video, if that is something you are at all interested in. 

Personally, I think that if you are happy with rangefinders and do not feel the need to switch, the M10 is the clear choice. But if you are finding that you love the M lenses and look, but find you have a hard time focusing them or resent using the RF, then the SL is probably a better route. 

Hi Stuart,

 

I am enjoying using my M8 and M9, and Thank God, my eyesight is fine without wearing glasses or contact lenses to accurately focus even with the 75mm 1.4 Lux wide open. I get annoyed at times at the M9 especially when I want to take some photos of flying birds, back to back, and the buffer fills up quickly. Then my M9 dies. Then it is a matter of acknowledging the aging of the M8 and M9 compared with newer models. I may still get the M10 for being smaller and lighter than the SL. I have not given up on using my Polaroid Land 250 camera! I still use film. I enjoy very much taking photos each week. This is to me most important. It is not the gear used. I enjoy trying new things out.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Raid Amin
addition

[Raid Amin]

17 hours ago, Mute-on said:

I think Jeff raises a very good point regarding objectives. 

What do you not have in your M8 and M9 that would be provided by M10 or SL?

What you want to retain that the M8 and M9 do provide?

I suspect in answering these questions, the choice will present itself as the result of a decision tree analysis. 

In relation to the 50 APO, unless you don’t have a 50/2 lens, I think it is a waste of $$$. 

Good luck!

I do not trust the M9 by itself when I travel. Getting an M10 or an SL would get me a more reliable camera. Either one will also allow me to quickly take photos back to back if I wanted to do so. The M10 has a RF and is smaller than the SL, while the latter has an awesome EVF. 

[otto.f]

6 minutes ago, Raid Amin said:

photos of flying birds,

Well with an SL with M lenses you will with your time for focusing not catch up on the bufferspeed of an M9

Edited October 26, 2019 by otto.f

[Raid Amin]

17 hours ago, Jeff S said:

No need to spend a penny without a goal.  Unless your goal is just to spend your money.  Otherwise money is a means to an end.  What’s your objective?

There are goals, Jeff. Staying healthy enough to be able to take photos is a goal. 

[Jeff S]

6 minutes ago, Raid Amin said:

I enjoy trying new things out.

And that’s exactly what I recommend you do.  Yours is the only opinion that matters, as we each have different tastes and preferences. Demo, rent or buy... easy enough to do any in the US.... if you’re fortunate enough to be alive and healthy.

Jeff

[dkCambridgeshire]

On 10/24/2019 at 4:53 PM, willeica said:

As economists might say, the M10 and the SL are not substitutes. They represent two completely different design philosophies I have plenty of Ms, including the M10, but the SL holds no interest for me whatsoever because of its size. Other manufacturers have produced similar cameras with wonderful EVFs etc in a much smaller size. Leica would need to get the SL and its lenses down to at least two thirds of their current size to arouse my interest for photographic uses for which the M10 is not suitable. My back up to the M10 is an Huawei P20 or an iPhone. I also have a very large number of vintage Leicas to keep me happy on the film front.

For what it is worth, Sean Reid (who acts as beta tester for Leica) told us at the LHSA AGM last Saturday that M lenses will always work better on the M than on the SL. He also said that diffraction issues will kick in earlier with larger sensor sizes.

William

 

On 10/24/2019 at 4:39 PM, Jk1002 said:

I am planning either used SL or new SL2. Reason is taking pictures in low light, I would like to have focus peaking, I can't focus manually at night. Coming from a M262 though.

With M10 I probably would not consider either, external viewfinder and screen might be good enough for these situations.

 

Take note of diffraction 'hint' ... Prudent to wait for reviews ... which will likely be published as soon as the camera is officially announced 

dunk 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Distagon]

On 10/25/2019 at 1:53 AM, willeica said:

For what it is worth, Sean Reid (who acts as beta tester for Leica) told us at the LHSA AGM last Saturday that M lenses will always work better on the M than on the SL. He also said that diffraction issues will kick in earlier with larger sensor sizes.

All Ms after the M240 have the same sensor size as the SL.

Even if he was referring to the small pixel size interacting with the diffraction limit, that is not a feature of the camera system but of the sensor spatial resolution.  The M240, M10 and SL are all on par in that regard.

The only real difference would be the use of different microlens array and sensor stack on the M cameras, which are designed to play better with M lenses and avoid colour shifts at the image periphery: