Jeff S Posted November 1, 2019 Share #41 Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Others will still use old lenses, often for the same reason they add a lot of grain to Monochrom images... to offset the ‘clean’ resolution. And that’s why I question if MP is really the priority for many Monochrom users, especially those preferring an older b/w 35mm film aesthetic. Jeff Edited November 1, 2019 by Jeff S 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 1, 2019 Posted November 1, 2019 Hi Jeff S, Take a look here When will we get the M10M, really?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
_Olivier Posted November 1, 2019 Author Share #42 Posted November 1, 2019 5 hours ago, Jeff S said: I would have preferred 24MP (producing far higher effective resolution) with the much improved body/VF/sensor of the M10, and a year earlier. Agreed 100%. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted November 2, 2019 Share #43 Posted November 2, 2019 23 hours ago, mmx_2 said: Where did you hear the 12800 max ISO rumour? My mistake. I see now that what I read - in the context - as a list of specifications is just the EXIF (but not described as such - and in German) from an individual picture. Nevertheless, it is factual that more, smaller, pixels on a given sensor area (24 x 36) with a given technology, will have less light-gathering capability and thus less high-ISO sensitivity. Whatever tech the rumored M10M sensor uses - 24 Mpixels would improve its ISO top-end over 41 Mpixels. And that would be more useful to me, and the main reason I would bother with a B&W-only camera. But it's a debate as old as "8x10 cameras" vs. "35mm cameras" or "Kodacolor Gold 1600" vs. "Kodachrome 25." We'll find out what the reality is, eventually. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/302293-when-will-we-get-the-m10m-really/?do=findComment&comment=3846243'>More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted November 2, 2019 Share #44 Posted November 2, 2019 I think that Monochrom will be immune to such issue. No Bayer filtre = way more luminance = less noise. Add the fact that Monochrom means no colour noise at all. I think that it should be more than ok with very very high ISO. Sole issue : the ISO dial will be way too small 😅 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted November 2, 2019 Share #45 Posted November 2, 2019 I think that Monochrom will be immune to such issue. No Bayer filtre = way more luminance = less noise. Add the fact that Monochrom means no colour noise at all. I think that it should be more than ok with very very high ISO. Sole issue : the ISO dial will be way too small 😅 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 4, 2019 Share #46 Posted November 4, 2019 On 11/3/2019 at 9:59 AM, nicci78 said: I think that Monochrom will be immune to such issue. No Bayer filtre = way more luminance = less noise. Add the fact that Monochrom means no colour noise at all. I think that it should be more than ok with very very high ISO. Sole issue : the ISO dial will be way too small 😅 For a given sensor (M9 18MP Truesense CCD sensor), base ISO went from 160 to 320 when the Bayer CFA was removed. So, while higher MP appears to degrade higher ISO performance and increase noice (see Q2 discussions), light gathering does seem to improve. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonescapes Posted November 5, 2019 Share #47 Posted November 5, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) On 11/1/2019 at 3:44 PM, dkmoore said: Where in DC? Private seller on eBay? Yes, a legitimate seller located in Arlington, as I recall. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
overexposed Posted November 6, 2019 Share #48 Posted November 6, 2019 On 11/5/2019 at 5:16 AM, IkarusJohn said: For a given sensor (M9 18MP Truesense CCD sensor), base ISO went from 160 to 320 when the Bayer CFA was removed. So, while higher MP appears to degrade higher ISO performance and increase noice (see Q2 discussions), light gathering does seem to improve. it does not, the base iso is still 100 but since the bayer sensor is missing(which is essentially an ND filter) more light hits the sensor, thus iso 100 is called 320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 6, 2019 Share #49 Posted November 6, 2019 6 hours ago, overexposed said: it does not, the base iso is still 100 but since the bayer sensor is missing(which is essentially an ND filter) more light hits the sensor, thus iso 100 is called 320 Splitting hairs, don’t you think? On the dial, the Monochrom values are twice as high. Base ISO, in use, on the Monochrom is 320, compared to the base ISO, in use of 160 for the M9. No bayer CFA, twice as much light hitting the sensor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
umutfps Posted November 6, 2019 Share #50 Posted November 6, 2019 I wonder if they release it by the end of the 2020... If that were the case I would by 246 tomorrow... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted November 6, 2019 Share #51 Posted November 6, 2019 9 hours ago, overexposed said: it does not, the base iso is still 100 but since the bayer sensor is missing(which is essentially an ND filter) more light hits the sensor, thus iso 100 is called 320 Ha ha ISO is not a real value. It is completely made up. It is whatever the manufacturer wants. So why bother ? M Monochrom said 320 at base. So it is in Leica world. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted November 7, 2019 Share #52 Posted November 7, 2019 (edited) In this interview with Matt Granger : Leica 2019 State of Play Stefan Daniel is confirming that M Monochrom cameras are doing very well, and they will release a new model soon. He also said that they faced unexpected issue with S3. He also confirmed that the sole change is the 64MP sensor. So it must be the problem. But he reassured us that the sensor is unique to Leica, and it is very very good. Rumour M10 Monochrom with 41MP, is in line of being a cut down version of 64MP 30x45 sensor. In conclusion, if S3 sensor is not ready for prime time, so is the M10 Monochrom one. S3 being pushed back to spring 2020, we may have to wait until this time for a new B&W M camera. Edited November 7, 2019 by nicci78 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 7, 2019 Share #53 Posted November 7, 2019 4 hours ago, nicci78 said: In this interview with Matt Granger : Leica 2019 State of Play Stefan Daniel is confirming that M Monochrom cameras are doing very well, and they will release a new model soon. He also said that they faced unexpected issue with S3. He also confirmed that the sole change is the 64MP sensor. So it must be the problem. But he reassured us that the sensor is unique to Leica, and it is very very good. Rumour M10 Monochrom with 41MP, is in line of being a cut down version of 64MP 30x45 sensor. In conclusion, if S3 sensor is not ready for prime time, so is the M10 Monochrom one. S3 being pushed back to spring 2020, we may have to wait until this time for a new B&W M camera. Specifically, new S3 sensor and color array, with better red channel... according to David Farkas interview last year with Toni Felsner. https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2018/09/photokina-2018-the-leica-s3/ If problems are with color array, these should not affect the Monochrom. But timing could still be affected as a result of efforts. Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted November 9, 2019 Share #54 Posted November 9, 2019 (edited) Reading the interview again, makes me sad that SL2 comes with Q2 sensor. Looks like the 41MP cut down version of S3 sensor would have been a killer : better colour, totally clean 6400 ISO, even better dynamic range and better battery life. M10 Monochrom ans M10-X will be fantastic. But just like with the Q2, they kind of acknowledged that Maestro II is too slow for 64MP and maybe for 47MP. Because buffer is almost cut in half 7-8 images instead of 12-15. Only 2 GB of RAM when SL2 comes with 4 GB. And continuous shoot goes down to 3 fps instead of 3.5 Weird to see SL2 bests future S3 in the tech around the sensor department. Sadly future M10 Monochrom and M10-X will follow the same pattern and be stuck with Maestro II only. Edited November 9, 2019 by nicci78 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyboy Posted November 11, 2019 Share #55 Posted November 11, 2019 I'm not going to deny I feel quite intrigued by the up and coming M10 Mono. I own a Monochrom 1 and after all the trails and tribulations of the sensor I must say I love the camera. As is already been mentioned here, for me ISO 3200 is the max I would need and extreme low light performance is not something I'm too much in need. I'm even ok with the megapixel after all these years. On the other hand, I would love a smaller body...and possibly even lighter than my actual Monochrom. I haven't tried the M10 yet in my hands so I can't really tell how heavy it is...it definitely looks smaller. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted November 11, 2019 Share #56 Posted November 11, 2019 The Monochrome is thinner and lighter than the M10. Somewhat! See camerasize.com. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted November 11, 2019 Share #57 Posted November 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, jankap said: The Monochrome is thinner and lighter than the M10. Somewhat! See camerasize.com. Which (Leica) Monochrom is thinner and lighter than M10? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 11, 2019 Share #58 Posted November 11, 2019 Another impossible dream, one that would encourage me to buy a M10 Monochrom whilst still keeping the M9M which is still such a unique camera, would be a M10-D Monochrome......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted November 11, 2019 Share #59 Posted November 11, 2019 vor 3 Stunden schrieb pedaes: Which (Leica) Monochrom is thinner and lighter than M10? Leica M Monochrom and Leica M10 are the same width (139 mm) and both of the same height. Leica M Monochrom is 4% (1.5 mm) thinner than Leica M10. Leica M Monochrom [600 g] weights 9% (60 grams) less than Leica M10 [660 g] (*inc. batteries and memory card). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwesi Posted November 11, 2019 Share #60 Posted November 11, 2019 11 minutes ago, jankap said: Leica M Monochrom and Leica M10 are the same width (139 mm) and both of the same height. Leica M Monochrom is 4% (1.5 mm) thinner than Leica M10. Leica M Monochrom [600 g] weights 9% (60 grams) less than Leica M10 [660 g] (*inc. batteries and memory card). Are you talking about the M246 Monochrom or the M9 Monochrom? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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